From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bifrost.lang.hm (lang.hm [66.167.227.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7A373B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from dlang-laptop ([10.2.0.122]) by bifrost.lang.hm (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id uANJFKLE000314; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:15:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:15:20 -0800 (PST) From: David Lang X-X-Sender: root@dlang-laptop To: Jonathan Morton cc: Rich Brown , bloat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4BD9ED0C-9FF6-4A12-9F8C-76791BFA38E8@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20.17 (DEB 179 2016-10-28) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8323328-476781930-1479928521=:9765" Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 19:15:24 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-476781930-1479928521=:9765 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Jonathan Morton wrote: >> On 23 Nov, 2016, at 20:46, David Lang wrote: >> >> Do you need a device that ships with the fixes in it from the factory? > > I think this is what we should aim for. That would greatly simplify installation for Joe Average, and it could serve as an anchor point in the wider industry. I don't disagee that we should be aiming for this in the long run. But acting as if we have no solution at all until this is achieved is wrong. David Lang > Ideally, it would have official mutual support with LEDE or OpenWRT, so that updates to the latter automatically propagate. Even if it takes a month between writing a patch and being sure it’s reached end-users, that’s still a major improvement over the status quo. > > It’s much harder to rely on firmware replacement on existing devices, because the latter can change hardware on the same model number without notice, or simply discontinue manufacture in favour of a new model. That makes a minefield for networking novices to wade through. So it’s fine for experimentation among ourselves, and for a certain type of early-adopter, but not for the average gamer. > > - Jonathan Morton > > --8323328-476781930-1479928521=:9765--