From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.lang.hm (unknown [66.167.227.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DD6B3B29D for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlang-laptop (unknown [10.2.0.162]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43ECDF251F; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:08:07 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang X-X-Sender: dlang@dlang-laptop To: Rich Brown cc: bloat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9A233C8C-5C48-4483-A087-AA5FE1011388@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.1 (DEB 209 2017-03-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [Bloat] Questions for Bufferbloat Wikipedia article - question #2 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 18:08:08 -0000 On Mon, 5 Apr 2021, Rich Brown wrote: > Next question... > >> 2) All network equipment can be bloated. I have seen (but not really followed) controversy regarding the amount of buffering needed in the Data Center. Is it worth having the Wikipedia article distinguish between Data Center equipment and CPE/home/last mile equipment? Similarly, is the "bloat condition" and its mitigation qualitatively different between those applications? Finally, do any of us know how frequently data centers/backbone ISPs experience buffer-induced latencies? What's the magnitude of the impact? the bandwidth available in datacenters is high enough that it's much harder to run into grief there (recognizing that not every piece of datacenter equipment is hooked to 100G circuits) I think it's best to talk about excessive buffers in terms of time rather than bytes, and you can then show the difference between two buffers of the same size, one connected to a 10Mb (or 1Mb) DSL upload vs 100G datacenter circuit. After that one example, the rest of the article can talk about time and it will be globally applicable. David Lang