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[185.193.85.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k23-v6sm13259218wrc.59.2018.04.23.22.44.22 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Pete Heist In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 07:44:26 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <003D19B8-73F8-46D4-8FC8-95F6E518D3B5@eventide.io> References: <871sf6xqne.fsf@toke.dk> To: Jonathan Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Cake] Pre-print of Cake paper available X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 05:44:24 -0000 > On Apr 24, 2018, at 1:31 AM, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >=20 >> Or since using the keywords would be fragile, is there a better way = to know the proper sense for dual-srchost and dual-dsthost? >=20 > This is covered in the tc-cake manage: =E2=80=A6 Oops, poor wording on my part. I meant is there a way for cake to detect = which of the two modes is most likely intended automatically and default = to one of them? I do understand why triple-isolate is an attractive = default, and since a typical home gateway routes a few source IPs to = many destination IPs, it will usually do what people expect without any = configuration (except for when two clients are communicating with the = same server, when it may not). It's just feedback that one of the first = things I do for a cake setup is set dual-srchost / dual-dsthost as = appropriate, and I was just searching for ways to make my personal = preference automatic. So yeah, leave it. :) > I'm not terribly keen on overloading the ingress and egress keywords = as you suggest; certain people tend to get a bit worked up about it, and = it could be confusing unless done very carefully. Already, for the = command-line interface, we have to explain what "ingress" and "egress" = mean in themselves, when some of the target audience might have trouble = setting the clock on their VCR. (Also, they still have a VCR!) I=E2=80=99m not either. This (along with =E2=80=99nat=E2=80=99) were = part of an overall wish that =E2=80=98cake=E2=80=99 without any keywords = would do the =E2=80=9Cright thing=E2=80=9D by default as often as = possible, even if it means adding auto-detection logic. I don=E2=80=99t = expect keyword changes at this point unless it=E2=80=99s really clear = how to implement something. I=E2=80=99m old enough to get the VCR joke, = and to remember my tiny H and M buttons with substandard tactile = qualities... >> - Not in the paper, but is the =E2=80=98wash=E2=80=99 keyword really = needed? >=20 > You'll have to ask Dave about that - he's the one who insists on = having it! The only coherent explanation I can immediately think of is = to bypass wifi's builtin medium-grant prioritization. There=E2=80=99s an recommendation in the man page about Comcast that I = didn=E2=80=99t follow, but that that second one is also true. I was = experimenting with sending traffic over IPIP tunnels, which hides the = original markings from the WiFi stack, which might be desirable in a = WiFi backhaul, for example. =E2=80=98wash' would be another way to do = that, although then the original markings wouldn=E2=80=99t be preserved, = so the end result is a bit different. >> - Is it worth mentioning that when the home gateway=E2=80=99s uplink = is WiFi, shaping is hard to do reliably, overhead and framing = compensation can=E2=80=99t even be implemented, and that this is all = more properly handled in the WiFi specific work? >=20 > Wifi *or* 3G, etc. I'm very conscious of this problem, but it's hard = to solve in the qdisc itself. It's definitely better to solve it at the = upstream end of the link and with real-time medium awareness. Wifi can = have that today, with the right hardware, but good luck getting the = 2G/3G/4G vendors on side. It might still be worth mentioning in an academic paper, but this (all = of this) is only feedback=E2=80=A6 :)