From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x244.google.com (mail-lf0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F7933B2A3 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x244.google.com with SMTP id x72so21906575lfb.1 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:10:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=OuroIJI9g+CjbGbfncejeg2D+2dAYQZumQ4aDMVEM7Q=; b=hJeT8p0/mUNcsa5Zu6tDjRMaFgtrxRZLshJbLUB8SB4owX95ikEOkMuI+JU6vV8xgf wN4nCafh2NffF4/IphI8n5lWxcBTYkxi/pWV+AinocbfYm8Q1nZ2kecNp1huAHSSfiTA ssFGAvzoSsel9uEKhFQzp7dMd+t4ZFLZkt4dtEACeRVHtRm3QvQ7/dVjlRy+/2oHDY1R i/Nvyu4K+U0TqMYu6RQhrkVlRnYZzHGxACgbBTz/R3w6jGbrnF3AJasiMdoy1gigZJNQ DlNXmYtnWtvcL7WAicw7t0T8k2rNa+JM09Zpzbq6D1YIf+irSZoa0AO4Vek0G5GmxOsQ y18g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=OuroIJI9g+CjbGbfncejeg2D+2dAYQZumQ4aDMVEM7Q=; b=Q++rGHNKJmZX5fse994WdOOwN9ew8u3cNftFQDgVkx49X8uEKp5VCTFHsYkmNEFwit QDdmUMg2cY8Oyp+EOqSvZ58S128MQArIWuPXk1dbjnhZ2JgIjE/4g2y6P6ORJd09GWhV N1BMu1Cjk4Tnxu7lhDmUf2/co4a7xCqSkDOWK7R40rRMsRlXmCx3UmG8W6LBekr+nkVO tuKAr55quR322xBE6UXVaysUGpR1AaQFXP6QgCMBDZ87PWscsElRcTvVsJ+pM/SxZAjt ZE76UKrwKOpkzcU2yrxLzfUiY9eSSi33OmDQRXqWK6K5odcfO0RjN4aT37kh5PSdu3MY nBbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7Cs2NMggB2tAu5HS3ZlKFEmXr3L0Pl+WdCctcEXSpsM8rfXece C7ZnM4Alm5qwSQ== X-Received: by 10.25.233.195 with SMTP id j64mr11468329lfk.29.1493147452871; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.100.12] (37-219-103-185.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.219.103.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm92881ljt.25.2017.04.25.12.10.51 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:10:48 +0300 Cc: Andy Furniss , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <09DB0D8E-F63C-4126-8608-9EACDE99D2F1@gmail.com> References: <05C0B0C7-4337-4115-AC6B-DA81392FCB34@gmail.com> <22E633CF-5EE0-4B0F-89A8-B790E730FB6C@gmx.de> <0BA3EE91-C5BC-4155-9D5D-D15D34490A1A@gmx.de> <00DDAA0B-7D99-489B-BA2D-1F20289409B3@gmx.de> <2FFBF256-2932-4FC7-AD1F-0D7CEE111809@gmx.de> <3fbfd0ee-7b41-0f83-8b44-ce7eed6a0562@gmail.com> To: Dendari Marini X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Cake] Getting Cake to work better with Steam and similar applications X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:10:54 -0000 > On 25 Apr, 2017, at 21:22, Dendari Marini wrote: >=20 > The good news is that using switch0 as inbound and pppoe0 as outbound = works, and I was able to set up Steam as bulk using the interface on the = ER-X (used DSCP 8 and used a custom DPI category). I confirmed this was = working by looking at the bulk traffic increasing (using the "tc -s = qdisc" command) and by starting another download (Steam gets pretty much = nothing in this case). >=20 > The bad news is this isn't enough to fix my gaming issue (still having = ping spikes, latency variation and packet loss), and even using it with = Steam configured to use just one connection didn't change much from my = previous testing. >=20 > So I'm really confused :\=20 > What could cause ping spikes in this case (assuming the multiple = connections aren't the issue)?=20 As noted, it=E2=80=99s far more difficult to control latency from = downstream of a bottleneck link. If a bulk sender decides to send = burstily, those bursts will always collect in the dumb queue at the far = end and delay other traffic. The only true solution is to install a = smart queue at the upstream end - but that=E2=80=99s not under your = control. You may see some improvement from wholesale reducing the inbound = bandwidth, to say 10Mbit. This is especially true given the high = asymmetry of your connection, which might require dropped acks upstream = to keep filled downstream - and dropped acks will tend to increase = burstiness of sending on unpaced senders. You should also try to ensure ECN is fully enabled on your LAN hosts, = especially the ones running Steam. This will help to reduce = retransmissions and loss-recovery cycles. - Jonathan Morton