From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD4883CB37 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:58:58 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1678813133; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=aaZf4ZpZmkBn+QNUTt07q078SUw2Urbu3PkReAQqBT8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=UJOR0aAQefFz8AuR5iSpUpw/DByV4olKSUihJmtivxb6+SeK9RWQMpK8h6ccBfxB2 24eLQ/bdlBlERRBGuoGhI+mcoYrXKCVIdOodc94r//kofUeRMKnXGS7ugPWr2l73Z3 uKIunWL/jyIWGxnvuxnFEbxaF7BhcbTrlH01touaxxrGpZOtyTLuqZaPHThd5mYLFp FbbDPVn9uuWDqdaf6bERRl61eUqf/YoiCqW7lc5I2OhVTf6WTJZx7IiYKKDz/CkAvv kwyaHo8EWdpP6V/OOb8ckUFNGOHl1CEbTZSvgijkGpb1nan4Y71ZLjhb/JbEjo3Ahj yhu1IaewpS1YQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MUowV-1q2pmm0y1p-00Qmto; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:58:53 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.2\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <407A497F-1546-43E3-BE4C-A052CBE8CD4A@cablelabs.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:58:52 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" , tsvwg IETF list , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0D20823D-9231-4221-B945-123E210DCD53@gmx.de> References: <167348364734.15098.9183646444272144529@ietfa.amsl.com> <659CE6DE-2B9D-4210-BAF8-BCC99E2ED875@cablelabs.com> <7434C6A7-4CED-4D39-A852-2714AB9DA1DC@cablelabs.com> <407A497F-1546-43E3-BE4C-A052CBE8CD4A@cablelabs.com> To: Greg White X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.2) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VpXFSGHLqgorN2c+9V9OwvU0PDdrvxTrffITyMOQfakPk5QD5Wt 8jFU4iKWcWynJavclhXUOX9kGWnFyl7wno9CC6HEAou/jUo8I5W/jrphKKgqkJ++tQDu2yW jj13De26ZVOm3WXFgfM6qO7K8Jfv5elEoahOligdcNwmToFE9vtYD5Utu9kxGC5M3QvV0Ht /ebyeR5ffHxzMg5YdNunQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:2P4ZLWA55Kk=;lGGBZAUyvpfZ+lrXjrxr530w1zZ H0u+Gm7CbP3uGgRdP451jpQxRMHnoJ6qWvtg+9sxdDr2YT0+EHWd9iBjhg/ta8WP2cNEHhC96 1kVFjRbOdn8ks4dfvfT3QitcVx2mHZrF2qWq7JxplwbpK6EwCBvCVF5ztPndiE3s4LamFazBF aKFqXxbtPra4qk7R+ZQ1dmIXDJ+r1tmwX9J4gMcE/qmhRPFUOjfLAFAkU+HVwpy6RZu0b4VH2 3r99pz4Is1anP950qnQc8Hgk/yF+kIPvisijzLG7U0ClDHIMRAMZH3vBN0oQptUXYVppEcZ9M MrN/Tmu1xlmIA86s+pRnLSiwzam6m7lUitsUHPKvVtEAguGTrgEUmo19duwOEvemmGIpqzRg0 fTdO3QNYFDYw1CMeVowKNWyPNDIgxDaUoc6e6JA4ZCWNQSCY6Pj52kK37Vdbnv1XVd9SDkaXa 4PGAQ2PoN/dM+Tm3FopY3JCZK8k3xG0giH5yXn3tM99VhziMNxfNAlvTfpzJnPEdwcdl1w1m/ wN6gvdXZD1cWOgfcKSnTDEgISyD7u1vQHo4DbPt5nnoPQ5obNFcKaGqnyJfbXlpIpOVyw6JC3 5CM0Mc8VANsytGfv0FqyHsEjsfQJOnjGWRS7KqSrEi3c/NmcIO5/CQgYfSpHW1La2mtkUIkeh 4iuEhDMk2DQzxTH+jwRqhJeaRfODYg1yEKWAlX/lJCOr/Yfc2QgQXfbIx9t+Lj99QEPTXZo3i VfkhGVpXsPT/Pk+NeFgtOoQjcp4oTk3arA3wfL7LcTXtCq4iX5Cd0djl/+C+LRiqnrkumv3GF 0aN2O8lMU6fK63E/U/p2G7n7sLluZXc3AVyIllkeN2ahUjCFM4kIC06Fs1EtYxo08cU6MqV7Y Pen2S0eHQUA+8Xn6xNkLNpZJii0p3MRuCWMzOMEgreib1/v1xT3WfaIcHJrImJcyfjEaPGFLf umIK95z7ezOYjIL3qlP4vf2PGI0= Subject: Re: [Cake] [tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-nqb-15.txt vs the cake AQM X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:58:59 -0000 Hi Greg, > On Mar 14, 2023, at 17:25, Greg White wrote: >=20 > Hi Dave,=20 >=20 > The NQB requirement is that it shares capacity with and is at the same = priority as Default (CS0). So, for all priority queue options in CAKE = (aside from precedence, perhaps), I would recommend that you align with = that requirement. So, I think I agree with what you wrote below for = besteffort, diffserv3 and precedence, but for diffserv4 CAKE would be = non-compliant if it put NQB into the video class. I don't understand = diffserv8, since the man page doesn't appear to describe it. But, the = same logic should hold there too.=20 >=20 > In most cases, I think the flow isolation in CAKE already provides the = benefit that the NQB PHB is aiming to achieve. But, in the flowblind, = srchost, dsthost, & hosts modes, it doesn't. > Here is where you could consider doing a full implementation of the = NQB PHB (a separate queue in the Best Effort tin). If you choose to take = that on, the recommendation is to implement a traffic protection = mechanism. This would be a really interesting test case to see whether = you think the draft is sufficiently detailed for you to come up with a = design for linux.=20 But this additional queue would violate the promises made by = flowblind, srchost, dsthost, & hosts, so you would need to add this as = additional key word documented to add an additional queue for NQB, but = what to do then, do this e.g. individually for each of the host queues = or just a single one. If you ask me don't do it at all or as specific modifier keyword for the = isolation modes, not that you asked ;) > You mentioned a Part II to discuss the various wash modes. I only see = two modes (wash/nowash) am I missing something? Same here, and again, if you want a special mode that still = propagates NQB please give this a new descriptive name retain_e2e_DSCPs = or similar, or an explicit way to enumerate which DSCPs to wash. Regards Sebastian >=20 > -Greg >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 3/14/23, 8:02 AM, "Dave Taht" > wrote: >=20 >=20 > I have been sitting on the cake related patches for this for years > now, and it is my hope to get support for NQB into the next linux > release, regardless of whether it gets through last call at this time, > unless the selected codepoint number changes. (?) >=20 >=20 > Cake (please see the man page here: > https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/tc-cake.8.html = ) supports > multiple diffserv models. >=20 >=20 > besteffort is exactly that, besteffort, and will not gain NQB support. >=20 >=20 > The diffserv3 interpretation is the default, and given that flow > queuing handles most of the NQB-like problems naturally, and Voice > (CS7, CS6, EF, VA, TOS4) is all that is handled there today, I am > thinking of *not* elevating NQB into that class is the right thing. >=20 >=20 > NQB fits nicely into the diffserv4 model in the video class, so I will > put it there. since covid we tend to use the diffserv4 model a lot to > manage videoconferencing better. >=20 >=20 > As for the CS0-CS7 precedence model inc cake, we have declared that > obsolete in the code, and wherever NQB falls into it, great. And the > diffserv8, I don=C2=B4t know. >=20 >=20 > Anyway, does that work for everyone? >=20 >=20 > Part II of this would be a discussion of the various wash modes, but > merely getting the right byte into the right lookup tables after all > this discussion, would be nice. >=20 >=20 >=20