From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5947C3CB39 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 20:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id u3-v6so5904810lff.5 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:04:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fOkNfJNRCvdKkMV3nm/tflq6l6cal4ljuljiN1lpHBY=; b=mkkbli8+7fjjRKdAtrymUlebZofJ3XhNNhnFujav1LDakL2ZakCWZorXwu3NbiX2xS pr0wBIPNgFG9PUGVkoSxdDnjaRwDhN/0bmC6iUoR9tLrujd9La739XS9cJhKB02t2XgA LOE4AIKF1MKzA3BgFEwORxbO7wNOB+npkJEUHrZ59YR81AhDkrMg+mQ1frbfP+Cb10nL 85jSQ+zTcqX3xNGfaWWgGfIzErr5PFyPC2dtvgKulUIH9DIjSvIQl/G4SUAJ+1EFtoRv gVZRyOg0+2nIaWOWRf8GifsIn3ffkCbzbTjKuLh62CrOHpesnYMQ8T49QK9qLH1JCzhv pvbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fOkNfJNRCvdKkMV3nm/tflq6l6cal4ljuljiN1lpHBY=; b=uZcOPtHs899YYACsjMfO4aCnABKu7t8pynuVxdsFCKD5lbzkzOI8UrTkrFwjrjLy10 wIHWnVCIWtypnq3S+Kv0ktLZH8ctgoHwBS19IANfgBeOOpwdU76LRS2WJmAXfbNs+L4u pps5NqKKp2bGfyR1UGUPDVltJgM+bya+W6xXDfp1j0oKb+Yxzgv1xRuVMIdJLRuBzWvc 0p2mSQ7e8lIrfOnfurVMourdBKJqzw8syEtLcViH7Jb224+HbemFpS5Hjqftcqe80rUP 1tinac+WcL8L2IQY3EHhfFHzubgjJv4tZaFA5FgcoxtT+2u52ZkGbjxOHScdZ4zH5JJB wGJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FHfFTMhwKIGTTJo/v4q/DpYUMq8NeKJ3oDnUmahcxEzTM2bDxm 5IoMVWAwAplAEbJvDtRMNoE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx48x9jI0sxglcw4Zf+8vX9Ga8qXTS7sl9ePcg4piQv/he3dkZrjTfQ0lR/YfkCTfyXc7qztSmA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:f20:: with SMTP id e32-v6mr3557781lfi.69.1522281856198; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.216] (83-245-236-162-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.236.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p75sm800812lja.9.2018.03.28.17.04.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 03:04:13 +0300 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FDFC78B-95A4-4A4E-8498-6C4AC9610BD0@gmail.com> References: <87k1twgpsy.fsf@toke.dk> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Subject: Re: [Cake] bufferbloat still misunderstood & ignored X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 00:04:17 -0000 > On 28 Mar, 2018, at 10:32 pm, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > The two line method is quite common among gamers. I'm pretty sure a single A&A ADSL connection costs less than two from a = bargain-basement ISP, what with line rental factoring into the total = price. Of course, not everyone is lucky enough to live in the UK and = thus have access to A&A (myself included). Something else to shoehorn into the Cake paper: as future work, an = ISP-focused qdisc (or even a whole middlebox using commodity hardware) = using a rearranged version of the technology proven in Cake. Cake = itself is focused on managing a single link, whereas an ISP must deal = with many subscriber links (with a finite variety of service tiers) = sharing a backhaul link, with the link interface hardware itself being = unable to avoid bufferbloat or to share bandwidth fairly when congestion = occurs. The backhaul link might be to a local exchange, a shared cable = medium, or a satellite hop. - Jonathan Morton=