From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B38593B2A4 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 07:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.250.101] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M3AzH-1fB8M01pnb-00syKT; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 13:06:35 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <87609zapmt.fsf@toke.dk> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 13:06:12 +0100 Cc: Dave Taht , Pete Heist , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <11A70C51-8436-46BD-BBD0-8A5E7A2C7AA3@gmx.de> References: <71FB183D-F848-4513-A6F6-D03FD0F10769@gmail.com> <52C2B216-220C-4C17-882C-9994867E86BB@gmail.com> <87tvxlvsex.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> <87609zapmt.fsf@toke.dk> To: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:aikVMqljQA40yIwOqgniP02y45JJqqgmpLxUbjD7axWcBi8PIla Qq2hrcwYxag+VKGIjFD+20eEy85yZ4LHJk/MEiroXoSA0tAgSkfUwr9GDTdem2RGvXC6WJn pKGsVt80H0XApg+vyRpwlPCZt4KOgnHU82UZds5Z8XYPtJhptcO/llVYA6+95cwylErhm+N n4ytjphKdp6nosGY+Ygsw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:J/yERN6Rie4=:gJAy7oh2Y3Sf8aeXW5bldT /drRjryj6S6g6rUxFPxAHR5qjJt6xY3aCLvDYnhNOOeemto8cYZEdN9a4qKcKKaNG19iumj8o VEvEkMSwWV+e38Ty2EJB9P370Cbzw4sNaotSCdxgb4TG9zA37Ce+fvyYgTvIyuxQc6QCzNUg9 EV/9882b2oKb8pqoAqvR8IQVepiHy78ehDQDzeReDTY1q5k2h4XQbzY/0uzlpTArXlfmH7C6c WMN13k0/xP4psBWUNfd/+60SfdzOg0vCM/EzEOYp0jN3LW8jq9w4Ebehg2lUhz6o1iHUTs9jA C6SmNECOl7ROyYP1atcFyi3wEqTWTlCIvNWFtJoUB/wbnR82zIOcd1okzJ3AVyfZ4c4ixK4ho 75xsYjpLWc5fKGl+vUzhRcQuHJ0yTjbwZAUofgn8JTcWErN0UsFn7tWxAqtXo4a64G07wuDEa ZYpVBVQvdPhg7S47YDqkHU7AhA4SNaPcIXoCevGx9qX8PitCiqx8fUmzTMfBGCKKrIOOYKZDu lIAyDFAjYPv1wMGrmAzhj+ovrYtVvCQYlvGkskjlTxb2vYkOC0jxEpIsWqqPhGvA/5w+14Gpc scQ5dHrUoFbqRvNyvnEuQetDOj45j1FCTnE4Aol4ELPPoowZ4i2wBybgLKse3S7r2FoX3nXHG R80Vzw4VbQF956GgPjs8RNGA5KsMwkm04al472VFmS0Ur0s3lNk7o2wQuoAKJoW4Gwj2SqYA/ 3ed+O0L2SChtMg8NUx4MpK+jBOrHOEyr3C1CWjH594HdeAv8LfEo3lVytFoUernJ62Mp92mSe +stMloVZPjV8UbaiVEkSxF1bjX2N8WJxmDqVmns2iqhScpIwn+OatakE/nbaPhBGFK5eXsg Subject: Re: [Cake] lan keyword affects host fairness X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:06:42 -0000 > On Nov 24, 2017, at 12:21, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen = wrote: >=20 > Dave Taht writes: >=20 >> Pete Heist writes: >>=20 >>> On Nov 23, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >>>=20 >>> This is most likely an interaction of the AQM with Linux' = scheduling >>> latency. >>>=20 >>> At the 'lan' setting, the time comstants are similar in magnitude = to the >>> delays induced by Linux itself, so congestion might be signalled >>> prematurely. The flows will then become sparse and total = throughput reduced, >>> leaving little or no back-pressure for the fairness logic to work = against. >>=20 >> Agreed.=20 >>=20 >> man page add: >>=20 >> At the 'lan' setting(1ms), the time constants are similar in = magnitude >> to the jitter in the Linux kernel itself, so congestion might be >> signalled prematurely. The flows will then become sparse and total >> throughput reduced, leaving little or no back-pressure for the = fairness >> logic to work against. Use the "metro" setting for local lans unless = you >> have a custom kernel. >=20 > Erm, doesn't this make the 'lan' keyword pretty much useless? So why = not > just remove it? Or redefine it to something that actually works? 3ms? The same applies for datacentre (0.1 ms), no? But I agree, let's not = expose these as explicit keywords, one can always use "rtt [100us|1ms]" = I assume... >=20 > -Toke >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake