From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf0-x22e.google.com (mail-pf0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB2F93B2BC; Sat, 4 Jun 2016 13:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id f144so53825930pfa.3; Sat, 04 Jun 2016 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iguPIGIdZf8WOgnVCLZ9gI8tiQ+jycCyyPdD9CkNlZw=; b=bby/97BxKjpu98YvaRlbJui4LCvnpti2c35mIgo+rZY4U7CHSHTDNcRyhKyEFkLBYy Sp5fBt+VT5US/2nuQc0BGH3Y8nYFi19teoEvIt2gs5BiYt/GAYrDqGv4SU6CJWYa8zuV WTBwuLU/sSUMQfoVVH+dHDEX9bZYXIvstU4VhFJhFxvhesqn4pdU13NKNV0XB7YSLB3u x205CXAt7p1ldVgTqPrHS+78HdLzi+EVsYQXW03imvM5IYsLNsgGxEKueJYbtJBdSg44 DLo0OgZXKc/k4CJIJdyOT15e7fJM8/G0qlQdqymcRhNU3n8swakPO0RGaM51nrPTQDtg bSWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iguPIGIdZf8WOgnVCLZ9gI8tiQ+jycCyyPdD9CkNlZw=; b=OiXQjZX8kwF8wZisprNAKYdc6JRLvKsZMR7nDOgpN9T8pN4EztK8eDkdiLeM2oU5t+ 9OVEieilCU72iCUT83Zj+wT5FnyF+v1GzkyoyckPY/m/sOyZ9vDYN3KrVY9B1XjtXIF+ nt3+o2mDzbc42F2qCytKOm3d27Y/TzcaPH514tzCZbvN2dv1UniHg3CR7Ap0m9Kn+Irw /phDhUK9OasJyzGaHcH7KzcCxcZP5kswjsFdHv2EuufSMtWNnl+1ifBbMOMU/Z+XYeXX dFJJGpQJUr0TARAb0o1Ll3PAqiUu21efpcO1Yl4NsSzihLuG/onHuz8/EyAAPfE+4o23 jylw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIbZyrgHufln7MUGiu50lkmJhs2fVymeW/iPDizOBmUVOj8oelybwU/REi9dvx7cg== X-Received: by 10.98.95.197 with SMTP id t188mr13915688pfb.162.1465062600964; Sat, 04 Jun 2016 10:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.29.162.28] ([172.29.162.28]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 83sm16717895pfl.12.2016.06.04.10.49.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 04 Jun 2016 10:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1465062599.2968.11.camel@edumazet-glaptop3.roam.corp.google.com> From: Eric Dumazet To: Noah Causin Cc: Jonathan Morton , Andrew McGregor , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net, "codel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2016 10:49:59 -0700 In-Reply-To: <10d58240-e106-ff1f-a038-df5bc0ee7a36@gmail.com> References: <22371476-B45C-4E81-93C0-D39A67639EA0@gmx.de> <857AEE56-E7DB-4981-B32E-82473F877139@gmail.com> <8AB0D25D-C1CA-45F1-889E-2F73CF8C44F7@gmail.com> <323AFC22-A092-4F59-8197-AF21EF73FD58@gmail.com> <274D3A0FA900FD47AA6B56991AAA32FDC5529FC8@wtl-exchp-1.sandvine.com> <574478B4.7080103@taht.net> <39F38477-A877-4C1B-9B7F-BB3358425F17@gmail.com> <0eb223f9-2873-7f53-c2ce-c6867ddec17c@gmail.com> <48A25043-19E2-4BB7-B634-A4003F7BE6F8@gmail.com> <01BEA343-7C07-46FA-8DC4-07BF26309FC8@gmail.com> <10d58240-e106-ff1f-a038-df5bc0ee7a36@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4-0ubuntu2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Cake] [Codel] Proposing COBALT X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2016 17:50:02 -0000 On Sat, 2016-06-04 at 13:10 -0400, Noah Causin wrote: > I notice that issue with Steam. Steam uses lots of ECN, which can be > nice for saving bandwidth with large games. The issue I notice is that > Steam is the one application that can cause me to have ping spikes of > over 100ms, even though I have thoroughly tested my network using both > flent and dslreports. > > I also notice that I get large sparse delays in the cake stats during > steam downloads. The highest I can remember right now is like 22ms. ECN (as in RFC 3168) is well known to be trivially exploited by peers pretending to be ECN ready, but not reacting to feedbacks, only to let their packets traverse congested hops with a lower drop probability. https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3540.txt