From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp91.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp91.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E137A3B2A4 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id AF6845518; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTPDoctor-Processed: csmtpprox beta Received: from smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A5BA3566B; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from app48.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8C2635518; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@deepplum.com Received: from app48.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app48.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784642121C; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "dpreed@deepplum.com" To: "Dave Taht" Cc: "Mikael Abrahamsson" , "Cake List" , "bloat" , "Make-Wifi-fast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: plain In-Reply-To: References: <1A06B0BB-4B2F-4E94-B947-EF41BCC3F18C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1532366810.49039544@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/15.3.1-RC X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:41:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] Van Jacobson's slides on timing wheels at netdevconf X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:26:51 -0000 Dave Taht wrote:=0A> I think the ietf should just rename itself to being DC= TF (the data=0A> center task force) and let some other org arise to take ca= re of the=0A> internet.=0A=C2=A0=0A:-)=0A=0AInternetworking is not really w= hat DC's are about. But it's an indication of where investors want to spend= their money.=0A=0AThe real "internetworking" challenges are happening, as = always, where ownership/control domains make central planning, design and c= ontrol difficult or impossible.=0A=0AThat is, at the "edges" not the "core"= . DC's are just another kind of "core".=0A=0AWireless (especially ad hoc co= nnectivity wireless) and "IoT" (if done with the sensibility of internetwor= king at its core) are where internetworking matters.=0A=0AThat's why conges= tion control and performance are such open-ended problems in internetworkin= g - you need a higher level of abstraction above the "hard standards" like = Ethernet, etc. because you can't solve those problems "locally" in the hard= -standardized-devices. (that's an "end-to-end argument" - you can't fully s= olve many internetworking problems in a subnetwork or router).=0A=0AIt's wh= y I don't go to IETF. The attendees have their heads screwed on with crosse= d threads.=0A