From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tn-mailgw-03.telenor.no (tn-mailgw-03.telenor.no [153.110.76.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63C853B2A4 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 02:04:04 -0500 (EST) IronPort-SDR: n+dPEy0cpu+XZkUExq8vs/ZnpZyHud7Y9UIX4mOxGitBEm2c0B+Dpmjmpe2SmLbM2Ae9ZLxNDQ VtenLF2uzPU36DlUcnojupzjFIkWtNoL3zfmFfv2BIu481Zna3b9f79TGMX2svOD1Xua97HL/o g+3XYb47Te/hSpXoN1qhqBYQ93CgJ8MbX9u1bNYnK3DmhgkOqOoc8uLtrcdNazVt+eruvOvZy+ +WbmxZgoLOIQszdpEmF/n1EqKqmYqB1L7uj1xW1CKrEPb3iU/wr1hJhW5XrAztWbJJ3o+RRxt3 7+A= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.81,236,1610409600"; d="scan'208,217";a="75701793" Received: from tns-sko-24-200.corp.telenor.no ([10.179.59.68]) by tn-mailgw-03.corp.telenor.no with ESMTP; 10 Mar 2021 07:04:02 +0000 Received: from TNS-SKO-24-209.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.77) by TNS-SKO-24-200.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:04:02 +0100 Received: from outlook.telenor.no (10.179.127.58) by TNS-SKO-24-209.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:04:02 +0100 Received: from pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net (10.149.139.134) by pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net (10.149.139.134) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2176.2; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:04:02 +0100 Received: from pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net ([10.149.139.134]) by pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net ([10.149.139.134]) with mapi id 15.01.2176.009; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:04:02 +0100 From: Taraldsen Erik To: Dave Taht , Nils Andreas Svee CC: Jonathan Morton , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Toke_H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen_via_Cake?= Thread-Topic: [Cake] STEAM tcp algo from CDN? Thread-Index: AQHXFLaqJ/kn9wf41U6CiTMRpB5Ixap8CRcAgAAwnQCAABVtgIAAB0aAgAB2tQE= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 07:04:02 +0000 Message-ID: <194ad8c5177a4f06aca1c879097647c5@telenor.no> References: <5407860ac65c4059838e7952ae162f9d@telenor.no> <9AADDAFC-ECCE-4023-BB68-C5CC729EC521@gmail.com> <59bb446ac8791ead9d3ce9a0f1bfff3e7d6f58d8.camel@lochnair.net>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nb-NO, en-US Content-Language: nb-NO X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.149.139.228] x-tm-snts-smtp: DE0B5B8007472BECABC3D5501B678CFF102F63FC4843E9367A82A61485341BD12000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_194ad8c5177a4f06aca1c879097647c5telenorno_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:18:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cake] STEAM tcp algo from CDN? X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 07:04:04 -0000 --_000_194ad8c5177a4f06aca1c879097647c5telenorno_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So to summarize, not quite certain which tcp algo they use. But everyone s= eems to agree that Steam does whatever they can to jam the pipe full ________________________________ Fra: Dave Taht Sendt: onsdag 10. mars 2021 01.57.09 Til: Nils Andreas Svee Kopi: Jonathan Morton; Toke H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen via Cake; Taraldsen Erik Emne: Re: [Cake] STEAM tcp algo from CDN? I would really like them to use less flows - or BBR started up separately with a 200+ms interval between starts would be good.... On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 4:31 PM Nils Andreas Svee wrote: > > On Wed, 2021-03-10 at 01:14 +0200, Jonathan Morton wrote: > > > On 9 Mar, 2021, at 10:20 pm, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > > > 10-20 flows, cubic, last I looked. It's ugly. > > > > I can't confirm CUBIC from here, but it seems to be 4-8 flows in > > parallel now. Latency to the national CDN is about 22ms over LTE, so > > it's hard to distinguish CUBIC from anything else in particular; in > > this range it would look a lot like NewReno. It seems to shut down > > each flow and start a fresh one after about a minute. > Seeing somewhere between 8-16 here I believe. IIRC I've seen you > mention being located in Finland, if so we're probably on the same > datacenter in Stockholm. > > The flows are probably not lasting long because the downloads are split > into chunks, which according to my logs are at most 1 MB. Patches seem > to work differently, those can be much larger (logs shows the largest > one the past months was 137 MB, depends on the game I assume). > > -- > Best Regards, > Nils > -- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman dave@taht.net CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729 --_000_194ad8c5177a4f06aca1c879097647c5telenorno_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So to summarize, not quite certain which tcp algo they use.  But ev= eryone seems to agree that Steam does whatever they can to jam the pipe ful= l

Fra: Dave Taht <dave.t= aht@gmail.com>
Sendt: onsdag 10. mars 2021 01.57.09
Til: Nils Andreas Svee
Kopi: Jonathan Morton; Toke H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen via Cake; Taraldse= n Erik
Emne: Re: [Cake] STEAM tcp algo from CDN?
 
I would really like them to use less flows - or BB= R started up
separately with a 200+ms
interval between starts would be good....

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 4:31 PM Nils Andreas Svee <me@lochnair.net> wr= ote:
>
> On Wed, 2021-03-10 at 01:14 +0200, Jonathan Morton wrote:
> > > On 9 Mar, 2021, at 10:20 pm, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.c= om> wrote:
> > >
> > > 10-20 flows, cubic, last I looked. It's ugly.
> >
> > I can't confirm CUBIC from here, but it seems to be 4-8 flows in<= br> > > parallel now.  Latency to the national CDN is about 22ms ove= r LTE, so
> > it's hard to distinguish CUBIC from anything else in particular; = in
> > this range it would look a lot like NewReno.  It seems to sh= ut down
> > each flow and start a fresh one after about a minute.
> Seeing somewhere between 8-16 here I believe. IIRC I've seen you
> mention being located in Finland, if so we're probably on the same
> datacenter in Stockholm.
>
> The flows are probably not lasting long because the downloads are spli= t
> into chunks, which according to my logs are at most 1 MB. Patches seem=
> to work differently, those can be much larger (logs shows the largest<= br> > one the past months was 137 MB, depends on the game I assume).
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Nils
>


--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public=
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave@taht.net <Dave T=E4ht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
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