From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf0-x233.google.com (mail-pf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8A1B3BA8E for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:59:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id u19so2296471pfa.12 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:59:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networkplumber-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=swgPTfC+pu4vr1uzTnLPzmJiPRQUQ8eheS/BvzfIG84=; b=v30WjK/0e3ZUDMtJK97Vk6KD4kBCfyidCKiY3Kop3JFH87AqX9nHiBiwHQs4KflgMD P1OU/RsyLkK5clUpKTX7YNtR/S20AMslEJVZxopgDWSskjHOQrqrg3984jooaow/f/u5 6FAMFAVh+iiGo88utGsvbR9fEEV/QFdvVtl4sytkOnU0n1lhnRtHpwuNVYldcMjGYIsi OsVMQLeJq6iEhxS5vlVNCJmF4ArP3lzCpwSDMtnjXZ1M2W/t5FtHdyNAU9/KgQ23XyNg /YmwaceC5AI9pm3UK+sjvKo010VtMb2cEY+Ww1uBGiovc6lLAY6Ri4p5j9A1W8ERgH1t nb2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=swgPTfC+pu4vr1uzTnLPzmJiPRQUQ8eheS/BvzfIG84=; b=Mcfm4fD8rddbCCmXAVZ1ggft8/PQfi1pTzrwi6tb8GfOdgkCpnQjzNmEWY8gQNgi3h WZ8E7eg48TzEdWuwpuNVmC3V8TR4ooV0GjAso8D5YvJqNMs0qfEjS1AkEJ1lccRn+ZUg maaOuxHsogGF04FvOSGHld2pxung40IqBEzv5L8M2H4SBNDL++q4Sx4M7HbFu3A+jJvS BeEilBDVgxlpu0EJ1kkVzc5HY6YWaPHFqv5e8+35s8ur6lYFdtxNH5kywFoiZxlJiibO VYCYav0HER4yapxGxsuyUqE140K9PKXfT6h9bU9UCLaYNKBJ3PCxocIK0OdeXr55f4sk B55w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4sFkIsY3dwQsAD8u5HK5WYxEN3hMO8/lALeM+shuLhD42u37B2 yZX0uhhAsr1YgxSMDS9Pn/bulA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMayyQscMD3CUuLnTqYlTATvugq0zQgkfLSqb5iy0BJECk0sb5/iCgV+a25XxRefQ1bc9URvow== X-Received: by 10.101.101.211 with SMTP id y19mr573751pgv.191.1511999966945; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from xeon-e3 (76-14-207-240.or.wavecable.com. [76.14.207.240]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m15sm4783068pga.45.2017.11.29.15.59.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:59:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:59:17 -0800 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Dave Taht Cc: Juliusz Chroboczek , Cake List , bloat Message-ID: <20171129155917.63d51add@xeon-e3> In-Reply-To: References: <7i1skhrln1.wl-jch@irif.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] benefits of ack filtering X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:59:28 -0000 On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:41:41 -0800 Dave Taht wrote: > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > >> The better solution would of course be to have the TCP peeps change the > >> way TCP works so that it sends fewer ACKs. > > > > Which tends to perturb the way the TCP self-clocking feedback loop works, > > and to break Nagle. > > Linux TCP is no longer particularly ack-clocked. In the post pacing, > post sch_fq world, packets are released (currently) on a 1ms schedule. > Support was recently released for modifying that schedule on a per > driver basis, which turns out to be helpful for wifi. > > see: https://www.spinics.net/lists/netdev/msg466312.html Also TCP BBR has lost its initial luster since it is unfair and ignores losses and ECN (see recent netdev paper).