From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F10B3BA8E for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 08:45:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id b20so10494507lfa.12 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 05:45:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=BmWQfe7GlhIxGr6Qs25abu2/YUybpxdRVm3kQacQG0g=; b=bg/hvuUOLA6O/7x1iMM+AvFfn4COwJSPb+nBi5qvQuzlKURqoct1GuVEDle4h19ao9 +MZyBiBnI1XYCc0qTd6nO+MqxE3MuzO//yey3UneEl6PNfe5CPP1aNB4LkCzW951FOaI HAxQq20R1XWeW4T1BeY9FMhow7Zg8cstcpnvFq3ZZK4FymEj4w7pe+85qA0njKnJX001 BqXirnBwV3hUVJhOJRfB/uJR/ZOpUM44FbsE0hwb0UWT1EGrhfso7IxfL4/Y4OZbxmsY rmNIf3PhYrmuuInn3BBy4UfU22JPUVQqEhVtyqHIqzbgDTumdHA3/6de5muwL2hR6zRe nTYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=BmWQfe7GlhIxGr6Qs25abu2/YUybpxdRVm3kQacQG0g=; b=SqJqRm4DkBIyVDGfRpvUwtkFt/pzOHHCQJf58sDhRg4G0iu+7jSdDSD9sksHvYtnJ2 Jw5gZoMenSCTIXE+NBBqQNyWePuvRwCziA3Mg/5VEJ0nTszHc9RfwAlSJ05it9vJ90nv 2pj9+vtw4jRpv3/IwHNpbU+ssQxM3EkMaC2i17IvovvD4D8ts1S53ZWPJUDRGDmcmawz Q/8pG5sMS8TB4aU7WaAbWhxu/NWCWfyKIcZs5mxmNPGg9uvJu6b+sWWh95J7gmSomOP7 uX3h4OFwBpPXYzKjjx0NtQjXiBBFY7GZKg6kXIfIQeVGsz2hFxp4OBAsPRB38dYgytQd S/SA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdd4xNpn7gbQcVJJA2HOs2uJxZsaBCTVDlOclFQTUbWS3TGzqcX MEPXa3/PmLQXU92JckhAIW8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7HRozebY2gw4yD8UJlFqpFg/qhU9QA++jhLhDN8q+wKtMl0alyScJbcS7Va07rE7dJwncKUg== X-Received: by 2002:a19:c4cc:: with SMTP id u195mr12292947lff.141.1547819114245; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 05:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-233-163-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.233.163]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e14-v6sm720968ljb.31.2019.01.18.05.45.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 18 Jan 2019 05:45:13 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <87pnsu3xac.fsf@toke.dk> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:45:12 +0200 Cc: Georgios Amanakis , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2A195F4F-2F87-4742-93BE-273B5B8DB97D@gmail.com> References: <20190116033430.8446-1-gamanakis@gmail.com> <87pnsumg8s.fsf@toke.dk> <87pnsu3xac.fsf@toke.dk> To: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Cake] dual-src/dsthost unfairness, only with bi-directional traffic X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:45:15 -0000 >> Yes, exactly. Would be interesting to hear what Jonathan, Toke and >> others think. I want to see if fairness is preserved in this case = with >> sparse flows only. Could flent do this? >=20 > Well, sparse flows are (by definition) not building a queue, so it > doesn't really make sense to talk about fairness for them. How would = you > measure that? >=20 > This is also the reason I agree that they shouldn't be counted for = host > fairness calculation purposes, BTW... The trick is that we need to keep fairness of the deficit = replenishments, which occur for sparse flows as well as bulk ones, but = in smaller amounts. The number of active flows is presently the = stand-in for this. It's possible to have a host backlogged with = hundreds of new flows which are, by definition, sparse. I'm still trying to get my head around how the modified code works in = detail. It's possible that a different implementation would either be = more concise and readable, or better model what is actually needed. But = I can't tell until I grok it. - Jonathan Morton