From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FAAA3BA8E for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id v90-v6so13048741wrc.0 for ; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heistp.net; s=google; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=sZlov62yb60+/aav7+VBe9zC+/AJI5DnWHW/+1h+TPo=; b=P80bCod55gfgaAedab4uCTRk8mJHBVcF8YKc+zZF8R8evPsR2x8kxPyr1hAP00cHl6 TIMusi+J3F98IIn5MloEBc62QwNSanu0Ump0WsOd94Wpaf0tBf+oQIvKWrJuV15ZP0Ji mgHgHSUT4DjQIXVpOLTeCmI3RT+AMGDWeujfFow+xqaFREpx0h+KTXlM3rPcpQ6aDSyB O42mI8umlgn9URZFCtuHM1fLmbr0KMt1ILgIsOb6zXhjGiHyaro+dOg+Voc98akNuZ7W mlouUfmNGBG7vlExT4bYJAgMfmKAanof3q1Zd4Ed7jX+TYs4fCzZUTV1nMWB8ioSNDaz CVyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=sZlov62yb60+/aav7+VBe9zC+/AJI5DnWHW/+1h+TPo=; b=CrUPx6LpZ9fyPJyrhYdw8AXLLRQr2bYfQ7S65DxvTXFRH54iVr5vsNq/5htXUth4NO TYvOVPksQ8oTTd6ldskgCC5enmKaQW5njc34ajCV4fLgrcG3M7MTRzm+NrKik1WW++wF h5aJ4idWOFK/N3pKwOE7dyrJ8awgP/rtvn9XxVDRfahe0CDhVxCm5NSjmLnvvue9rWYA AHWc5JXoHaOhI75PnwDamTtEegXNY5YaZGrYV8eFD4K9pQuKGu5dD0Cmh1/45FWYX5xz 0Dh8HVmC2iNKhuhFqNeiNRZ8MDpDbtNLUC8el/EZ1ygRMhJJ0P/5A1yPE5gJuFSYDz5l BrxA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51DIOFk1qzLfrSlc2VjUuXmgymMNjp4UhcZkOkdYuPFzN/wUB/Bg bTM2oha2sk5r2L86AxbBXrQcomwVZ0A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYPLJTLo1aSpKsrKZEfLlVs2G9hP1Rf4C0PMns3l3Ji/5ErccIk0i8zYVTQ+lYTnA58YN3lUA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e5c4:: with SMTP id a4-v6mr4003030wrn.190.1536273465187; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tron.luk.heistp.net (h-1169.lbcfree.net. [185.193.85.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y5-v6sm5545323wrd.5.2018.09.06.15.37.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:37:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Pete Heist Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_42B3D73D-F1D8-4C8B-83E3-583E0C89CCD8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: <2CB335A2-E18F-430F-9331-9AD9B3238D84@heistp.net> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 00:37:43 +0200 To: Cake List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: [Cake] FreeNet backhaul X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 22:37:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_42B3D73D-F1D8-4C8B-83E3-583E0C89CCD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I met with the FreeNet Liberec admins earlier this week, and am just = starting to get the first IRTT / SmokePing probe data from a few = backhaul routers. I=E2=80=99ll see if I can get snapshots of the = SmokePing pages public somewhere, but for now... https://www.heistp.net/downloads/jerab_ping.pdf = https://www.heistp.net/downloads/jerab_irtt.pdf = On this router, there are various =E2=80=9Cevents=E2=80=9D that occur = with RTT spikes, and in general, UDP RTT maximums appear quite a bit = higher than those for ICMP. I speculate that at least some of these = events may be bloat, but can=E2=80=99t be sure yet. This router is an old ALIX with kernel 2.6.26, but on the other hand it = does have hfsc + esfq (a variant of sfq with host fairness) deployed, so = if it=E2=80=99s actually controlling the queue, one might suspect that = sfq it could control inter-flow latency at least somewhat. I feel the need for better data than this, but this is at least a first = look for me at bloat in an ISP=E2=80=99s backhaul. The =E2=80=9Celaborate=E2= =80=9D plan is to gather data for a while, deploy sqm in a couple places = (I hope for cake, but the kernel will need to be upgraded on this one), = and see what happens=E2=80=A6 :) Pete --Apple-Mail=_42B3D73D-F1D8-4C8B-83E3-583E0C89CCD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = met with the FreeNet Liberec admins earlier this week, and am just = starting to get the first IRTT / SmokePing probe data from a few = backhaul routers. I=E2=80=99ll see if I can get snapshots of the = SmokePing pages public somewhere, but for now...

https://www.heistp.net/downloads/jerab_ping.pdf

https://www.heistp.net/downloads/jerab_irtt.pdf

On this router, there = are various =E2=80=9Cevents=E2=80=9D that occur with RTT spikes, and in = general, UDP RTT maximums appear quite a bit higher than those for ICMP. = I speculate that at least some of these events may be bloat, but can=E2=80= =99t be sure yet.

This router is an old ALIX with kernel 2.6.26, but on the = other hand it does have hfsc + esfq (a variant of sfq with host = fairness) deployed, so if it=E2=80=99s actually controlling the queue, = one might suspect that sfq it could control inter-flow latency at least = somewhat.

I = feel the need for better data than this, but this is at least a first = look for me at bloat in an ISP=E2=80=99s backhaul. The =E2=80=9Celaborate=E2= =80=9D plan is to gather data for a while, deploy sqm in a couple places = (I hope for cake, but the kernel will need to be upgraded on this one), = and see what happens=E2=80=A6 :)

Pete
= --Apple-Mail=_42B3D73D-F1D8-4C8B-83E3-583E0C89CCD8--