From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C0BD3B2A4 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 01:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id b23-v6so18425613lfg.4 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:58:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=03NsdtaV5MbsE+r8fc/tN0qc+7RHkXUqTaWrvxUdZ3U=; b=jF2C53DVHhrqjNDLriy7JfIXqN5TBVknCpfHrLOjjcW1y9jkEdzgONflWapsfSAzvb a0TKX4ZVlAGXPHoVHWdOGEF4nHTEdW6v2iK/KH+nR4EESDcOCLXerykfZO8Q3afqOolg 0Bcdpcll4fNhg2gXrFhOnhtXrjdEDlnFFY6A32bcwn9XlnLdT9GNmFn+J4NswSXCkFQ6 5mhDQveLhc5JZS/Z+1Ewe9kZLyMav8CqxCBmmwTMrIOt/0B3Vf/bRiGj7YHKYhP/75Ta jzAs85XjvtEBY2CHmtyDiuorhxCZah48469aujwzvqNn92OgDHnRGh8H/BjCCfCxHcbW aIlA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=03NsdtaV5MbsE+r8fc/tN0qc+7RHkXUqTaWrvxUdZ3U=; b=NsVngwuhsH0avS0NQeABKAPIh6penE98vev1TBJVRbwyu3Gl70EcnOAxZkiCH1WpW1 oiTJjuh5qNRb7CfCtq4uafJhGknAsN2xnPlbTiTH5/cQs3+Smil4cv1vEwtihJ0ZadHi 2gCy45l9qvZkeIHL4vdpoi6VpH7Fw1U+aSjoulS4AMZtfDrhQV0FCZ2PDj6TjbHwM/DK GU4+awSQcdQ87Jb0Ks9drQ84sd3vVSSDNlaNElvvzYqKCjXaYYbrOUTC/43lyTmqV2AA jDBEYFvkdswLM74gN1m0HC4vzvjGIayHo4S59TZZAH7dhEISzG5oDXq8VoSCW+8pRbIA 06GA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCpmPhlsbw6+3sN+A9spl11yYVvqMl8fAB0bVlvuf/USrFropCS uKZg6zLiO+5hahAdyq+xx54= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/pzPfA2m/8tUBJhUjHW2zRcrfPwvpHhW0ZYsDKiaWxnqCcDD0WGZOO1cYqXNusAgQRP2y3Ng== X-Received: by 10.46.145.213 with SMTP id u21mr8776860ljg.0.1524549508020; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.216] (83-245-234-255-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.234.255]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v3sm175488ljj.71.2018.04.23.22.58.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <003D19B8-73F8-46D4-8FC8-95F6E518D3B5@eventide.io> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 08:58:25 +0300 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <311BE3FC-9211-4B33-AD46-444F21E2A38A@gmail.com> References: <871sf6xqne.fsf@toke.dk> <003D19B8-73F8-46D4-8FC8-95F6E518D3B5@eventide.io> To: Pete Heist X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) Subject: Re: [Cake] Pre-print of Cake paper available X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 05:58:29 -0000 > This (along with =E2=80=99nat=E2=80=99) were part of an overall wish = that =E2=80=98cake=E2=80=99 without any keywords would do the =E2=80=9Crig= ht thing=E2=80=9D by default as often as possible Turning NAT support on by default might actually be reasonable, since it = doesn't really break anything if it's not needed - it just eats a bit of = CPU with unnecessary conntrack lookups. For the flowmodes, basically triple-isolate's raison d'=C3=AAtre is to = be a reasonable default which (usually) gives most of the benefits of = the "dual" modes, without needing to know a-priori anything about = network topology. In the most typical application, the distinction can = be seen in whether the qdisc is attached to an IFB or a physical = interface, but in deployments that we'd *like* to see, the opposite = cases easily occur. To do anything more sophisticated, we'd need to = watch some traffic and guess after a while, and that doesn't feel right. - Jonathan Morton