From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F114F3BA8E for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id j68-v6so3387669lfg.13 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0h1ieyBVwwEiJU8RbszyCbhpOSfMvOtp0PvLO8PT/6Q=; b=gKHdFFOVLQgQOoHBSleAfvRsehbzrBEFhmnyHFIHccYkXiCxwrjk7+5CQL7PPjwWAQ ED3wqKl4dV63XYFzZf2NHTLnscAwQ1s3uKWtdengfdtiLwBWeoWwuQ+cTtPmjiRmfCkK Ir2pp5eJ3hnXB70DZdGaPo7hogAvly6xhG6tZ9gfrWgmnFZItyGH2UEbj+ASrmRR1rA6 mKr4L18BQu8AL60WSUlFnYK98zlvU+9lrayZ79rW9Ybm0AC92hEpgcKEmko4TLh5t26z UnJ/cl1jLrGfRUFeYMzXhnqrECKPZ31I9qCjeJSLygHFhzUizoA7XvGAANHbDSQcUbgQ 0pHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0h1ieyBVwwEiJU8RbszyCbhpOSfMvOtp0PvLO8PT/6Q=; b=CHvmaZSe9yrHkd55PCWkRNRNFHb0kjGima30GBO/x6+WWRpIEJVXjMaJiOioPqqJDx tzOhRQLb7Z2V1jztH/RHfgSQUttNkB4mB6pF/pqLDnIESpsVgC2akxRTEv1WNL5Th3t4 Zi/6jyRpHy+U7iGFtdu8igXtI30W98qDagks/e4fCdP/f8TqAQ09GrZBmn2sDByCc8kn 4bMJfZa1QC+rAP+d7NFPlMaAaVoLkPjLzgT++u+PeYD4FjFUPLL+7uYRF8ClkcKnZYJz afxfV2vhSi0EA834O+Haym9KHQ80nxOb2evPxUXl1a5aRhUR8IzdQ8n+ZMWaMNWtNIRQ uCSw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tBnAqwxMZ6dIiOax6Y8Jc6OkCAyx0zCfVlgznlHObcbpKFkKyPh xk55b6NyOR/CBAD9vKPkreg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx48eaOZszS6YA0uuc37nNvUy4yyM4TKxGQca9wUtOrH3K+dosINivf763yexUH19gdKXHfqFWw== X-Received: by 10.46.153.206 with SMTP id l14mr1791416ljj.87.1524067137823; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 08:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.216] (83-245-234-255-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.234.255]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l8sm240191ljh.78.2018.04.18.08.58.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Apr 2018 08:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <0BB8B1FD-6A00-49D6-806E-794BD53A449F@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 18:58:55 +0300 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3457DD8E-0292-4802-BD1E-B37771DCADA2@gmail.com> References: <87vacq419h.fsf@toke.dk> <874lk9533l.fsf@toke.dk> <87604o3get.fsf@toke.dk> <578552B2-5127-451A-AFE8-93AE9BB07368@gmail.com> <87r2nc1taq.fsf@toke.dk> <0BB8B1FD-6A00-49D6-806E-794BD53A449F@gmx.de> To: Sebastian Moeller X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) Subject: Re: [Cake] A few puzzling Cake results X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 15:58:59 -0000 > On 18 Apr, 2018, at 6:17 pm, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >=20 > Just a thought, in egress mode in the typical deployment we expect, = the bandwidth leading into cake will be >> than the bandwidth out of = cake, so I would argue that the package droppage might be acceptable on = egress as there is bandwidth to "waste" while on ingress the issue very = much is that all packets cake sees already used up parts of the limited = transfer time on the bottleneck link and hence are more "precious", no? = Users wanting this new behavior could still use the ingress keyword even = on egress interfaces? Broadly speaking, that should indeed counter most of the negative = effects you'd expect from disabling this tweak in egress mode. But it = doesn't really answer the question of whether there's a compelling = *positive* reason to do so. I want to see a use case that holds up. - Jonathan Morton