From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from haggis.mythic-beasts.com (haggis.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:86:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4460A21F5C2 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 02:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [79.78.84.166] (port=51678 helo=[192.168.0.3]) by haggis.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBwo-0002p1-Pu; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:14:13 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9E65B11C-6074-44B2-8374-7A7ACD657975" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: <43B59C2F-4B64-4318-8339-04903AF2A6AC@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:13:33 +0100 Message-Id: <34EEB0FF-1922-42B5-A778-9BB66B7C4FDC@csperkins.org> References: <5627B90D.8070106@alvestrand.no> <43B59C2F-4B64-4318-8339-04903AF2A6AC@cisco.com> To: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:07:57 -0700 Cc: "cake@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "aqm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Cake] [rtcweb] Catching up on diffserv markings X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:14:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9E65B11C-6074-44B2-8374-7A7ACD657975 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 22 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) = wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 21 Oct 2015, at 18:10, Harald Alvestrand > wrote: >>=20 >> Den 21. okt. 2015 17:51, skrev Dave Taht: >>> I unsubscribed from rmcat and rtcweb groups a while back after I got >>> overloaded, and appear.in started working so well, (for both ipv6 = and >>> ipv4! I use it all day long now!), to focus on finishing up the new >>> "cake" qdisc/shaper/aqm/QoS system, among other things. >>>=20 >>> http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/CakeTechnical = >>>=20 >>> Cake is now entering the testlab, and among other things, it has >>> support for the diffserv markings discussed in the related, now >>> concluded dart wg, but in ways somewhat different from that imagined >>> there. We have not got any good code in our testbeds yet to test >>> videoconferencing behavior, and we could use some, although it does >>> look like we can drive firefox with some remote control stuff with a >>> fixed video playback now.... >>>=20 >>> Five questions: >>>=20 >>> 1) Has anyone implemented or tested putting voice and video on two >>> different 5-tuples in any running code out there? >>=20 >> All VC systems I know of except WebRTC-based ones do it, AFAIK. >> It=E2=80=99s putting them on the same that's unusual. >>=20 > That sounds like the world I am living in as well. >=20 >=20 >>> 2) How about diffserv markings in general? Do any browsers or webrtc >>> capable software support what was discussed way back when? >>=20 >> I know Hangouts did something like that internally, on the controlled >> network. But not according to spec. >>=20 >>> 3) Were diffserv marking changes eventually allowed on the same = 5-tuple? >>=20 >> Yes, with caveats. draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos has the table. >>=20 >>> 4) Did the ECN support that was originally in one draft or another >>> ever make it into any running code? >>=20 >> I don't know. I think we lost it from the docs. >>=20 >>> (yea, apple plans to turn on ecn universally in their next OS!) >>>=20 > So how would ECN work on UDP? I do not think the necessary bits from = the IP header are available for the application to do anything. I do = think Linux supports this, have not tested. >=20 > And what about the network, would it support UDP when setting the ECN = bits? Probably a configuration related problem if not supported. RFC 6679 describes how to use ECN with RTP on UDP, although as you say = there are implementation difficulties on some platforms. I=E2=80=99m not = sure whether there are implementations.=20 >>> 5) What else did I miss in the past year I should know about? >>=20 >> For TCP and SCTP congestion controllers, we're back to one DSCP = marking >> per flow, and resetting the congestion control state if DSCP marking >> changes. >>=20 >=20 > There is a new ICE wg. It was created so =E2=80=9Cnetwork people=E2=80=9D= could participate without the overhead of listening to the SDP related = discussions. (https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/ = ) >=20 > .-. > P=C3=A5l-Erik >=20 >>>=20 >>> Feel free to contact me off list if these have already been = discussed. >>> I have totally lost track of the relevant drafts. >>=20 >> They're not finished still :-) >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sincerely, >>>=20 >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht >>> I just lost five years of my life to making the edge >>> of the internet, and, wifi better. >>> And, now... the FCC wants to make my work illegal >>> for ordinary people to install. >>> https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi = >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb = > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ --Apple-Mail=_9E65B11C-6074-44B2-8374-7A7ACD657975 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = 22 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) <palmarti@cisco.com> = wrote:


On 21 Oct 2015, at 18:10, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote:

Den 21. okt. 2015 17:51, skrev Dave Taht:
I unsubscribed from rmcat and rtcweb groups a while back after I got
overloaded, and appear.in started working so well, (for both ipv6 and
ipv4! I use it all day long now!), to focus on finishing up the new
"cake" qdisc/shaper/aqm/QoS system, among other things.

http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/CakeTechnical

Cake is now entering the testlab, and among other things, it has
support for the diffserv markings discussed in the related, now
concluded dart wg, but in ways somewhat different from that imagined
there. We have not got any good code in our testbeds yet to test
videoconferencing behavior, and we could use some, although it does
look like we can drive firefox with some remote control stuff with a
fixed video playback now....

Five questions:

1) Has anyone implemented or tested putting voice and video on two
different 5-tuples in any running code out there?

All VC systems I know of except WebRTC-based ones do it, AFAIK.
It=E2=80=99s putting them on the same that's unusual.

That sounds like the world I am living in as well.


2) How about diffserv markings in general? Do any browsers or webrtc
capable software support what was discussed way back when?

I know Hangouts did something like that internally, on the = controlled
network. But not according to spec.

3) Were diffserv marking changes eventually allowed on the same = 5-tuple?

Yes, with caveats. draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos has the table.

4) Did the ECN support that was originally in one draft or another
ever make it into any running code?

I don't know. I think we lost it from the docs.

(yea, apple plans to turn on ecn universally in their next OS!)

So how would ECN work on UDP? I do not think the = necessary bits from the IP header are available for the application to = do anything. I do think Linux supports this, have not tested.

And what about the network, would it support UDP when = setting the ECN bits? Probably a configuration related problem if not = supported.



5)  What else did I miss in the past year I should know about?

For TCP and SCTP congestion controllers, we're back to one DSCP = marking
per flow, and resetting the congestion control state if DSCP = marking
changes.


There is a new ICE wg. It was created so =E2=80=9Cnetwork people=E2=80=9D = could participate without the overhead of listening to the SDP related = discussions. (https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/)

.-.
P=C3=A5l-Erik


Feel free to contact me off list if these have already been = discussed.
I have totally lost track of the relevant drafts.

They're not finished still :-)


Sincerely,

Dave T=C3=A4ht
I just lost five years of my life to making the edge
of the internet, and, wifi better.
And, now... the FCC wants to make my work illegal
for ordinary people to install.
https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi

_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
=

_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

_______________________________________________
rtcweb = mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb



-- 
Colin Perkins
https://csperkins.org/




= --Apple-Mail=_9E65B11C-6074-44B2-8374-7A7ACD657975--