From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E33E3CB39 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 23:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-50435ad51bbso5117967e87.2 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:52:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697428326; x=1698033126; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=lsYl8VHFonU3U9UTGyorUEsNof8azVb7sIq64fT1RSw=; b=RUmoujyTDbxouQ5H1z/R9WH3/FGVJZ8dZTNcnr0pBOHb6wIjiH35gM47s+8eEqu2M5 U3WD0v24fSNUceicFW9tba4SwLOuVqVH1mOJyaKy5QqDDPgTCb7RnjhASxPGEhTmwDTq 39U/WwOcr6zaB/+GVJFJjEdDKiumoOOIG5S4pUTbS/oGVp63usCcaqCtBSqpCG9wMSx2 6+2Ddd0xHvRI3RHi1PM5EagsjIt0/oz/7VRVyBOiuqaEh5kmgQd8X1vTQnCBhwYTTMHw FcA8Klj48/WJZBEqCQ576fxQnQrF1DgRZe9nBkh0g3Uu4d608SYzD+YIql3yNd15+Hun SWgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697428326; x=1698033126; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lsYl8VHFonU3U9UTGyorUEsNof8azVb7sIq64fT1RSw=; b=Cdeqvm/67Q5jOD0fLpvshtqxX7pYXZ7cZAS+Tng9W7DU8Ey4uAuwa3FrgAEuSnO6+X Hk0Fsyp9f1TkmwluV6lh3cmCWTOFK/ehIG/bPZFqRdCTPSpzmuBYirsnHcnC+MG6aBPU 1WliogZ5Fgoew5oEdf6LiQdBxJobMt9NAGnpMDzph4kKyiCQ8hXhoMbn5riJpB/XmiUS pkFU0HVkdSFfaT9m4uA2pfe491XbfyJ6sTMuWbIGqkPVgkyh8tzEItIn7izuXSeBi3BI tWWZdfbE7PB39cvR0W8QxCtvHtbejVEc+rDYbV5VIRFQ1M03gLCdIpDHDv2+yZbXrc32 bNsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxyizthk0A9Mh/4I3XFR6z0BWdOYhVCbVoAnb4FcB3cvbFnwEw/ 7SuluhJ+cecdZliau/W5L/0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFeaEvaRdAwi39cFkp0xLm3xX79csNAgL5iATkUb7y670HZxsu4y2Qhd0pqwJbaln1vxjeD9Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:ba3:b0:503:264b:efc9 with SMTP id b35-20020a0565120ba300b00503264befc9mr31212348lfv.18.1697428325999; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (178-55-50-108.bb.dnainternet.fi. [178.55.50.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k15-20020a0565123d8f00b00500b561285bsm4263853lfv.292.2023.10.15.20.52.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1697401792.32573388@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 06:52:04 +0300 Cc: dave seddon , dave seddon via Cake Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <444AAB44-8AE2-4812-BAE7-672A0B5489DC@gmail.com> References: <1695068690.78066946@apps.rackspace.com> <6D098714-69DC-41D9-A7DC-E94FD9C77625@gmail.com> <79EC8CB2-0912-4D66-9FA3-990E9C38C281@gmail.com> <1697401792.32573388@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Subject: Re: [Cake] some comprehensive arm64 w/cake results X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 03:52:09 -0000 > On 15 Oct, 2023, at 11:29 pm, David P. Reed via Cake = wrote: >=20 > Of course, Internet congestion control, in general, is still stuck in = the original Van Jacobsen sawtooth era. My guess is it won't get fixed, = though I applaud Cake, and despair the hardware folks who keep adding = buffers. I am still working in this area, including on a revised version of SCE = which might regain traction in the IETF. One of the more immediate results of this is a new AQM algorithm which = builds on the success of Codel, and a family of qdiscs I'm building = around it. These range from a queueless traffic policer to a "Cake = version 2", with an interesting approximate-fairness approach for the = middle child. The AQM itself is already working, though not yet = documented in a public-facing form. I'm also taking a new approach to overlaying the "small" congestion = response of SCE over the "big" response of conventional congestion = control, which I think is capable of solving several long-standing = problems in one go. I'll say more when we have a working prototype - = but think in terms of "no sawtooth" and "naturally max-min fair". TCP = Prague will look positively primitive compared to this - if it works = (and it should). - Jonathan Morton=