From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2D443B29E for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id d2so1388224lfj.1 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:27:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CkxFbqG10B5dYZyjQrSjNtbFIIP3MQRcXPvgrlWmxi8=; b=Q28mKK923uBNq/FcIUPJ4tAAWj8ZJn/arPnfJdAxC+Q/oDDA1rdUjTbIb/CfWaMa+n g1Qw9qOa9KMiEVIZoQqkcHWrmkMNfVZzqvMhSV93UD4YN2hS+W3hPBfgADDWeMhQS2Rl F7cWCzYrrfz+BWYg6OSnFzVBizT2/xgRnqJ6WGOSBnYxigadKxkS0VvACmChw62JTo/0 yqT6HIXJc3y/sxbLHf5eBKnhNZkLxOwLS1qoZueL83j+G8+AD7V0OulKXKz7TOM055Xm WAKlMD1je9FAsvruZhcNQtEYf7YEcMwh7s4SLw6ZbyJ9uB+RDpXbJ6TspxJWeGc3/X4H aiyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CkxFbqG10B5dYZyjQrSjNtbFIIP3MQRcXPvgrlWmxi8=; b=IUJiyHV6TDWxGfVpqyAFvEXIhyJYulWrYnhfbF3igB3IYS2UmRAElwpI0iOqv/MLZM kov6kZ793b6P3odKqboRfrF64X63pCD0dsMMJMN51Rt8IG4ngjoTp/fjU1JPKFgTXZ3w xOUuEhS01GQ0YjeKfLwVgcTB0ppABT6UpzHkfg1AUHr9CVYNPZkFuUx2KpD0NHptcxeF KrsZFskMVJ7T330egFpZroCHhi9BtmeD5f3czgbhS9IdDNVPjneNUBOaL44a9jG0oVMu TGxVWLT0Gr/NgHUMv8HY2hydOWGa1lT9RQWc+xp0VI2qAgOBApx/pX5FYeYBQu79DCKd 1YsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531wbiIjMCOU6AH3KPTQYzaGPAEsBOcrvQAYSaFFgV61ffzXMh2F gXqjc7aM8uoXS2dVSR9TAiUsPp5s X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxXs7cSkLOsUWP8xKwYndDLov5L1LnK5GlQ/TxT3qcea9Mv2nJV0vPamxRh3EvpD5GpbzPKew== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5f81:: with SMTP id r1mr7971195lfe.168.1595712476672; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-252-162-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.252.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u21sm864249lff.91.2020.07.25.14.27.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.6\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1595705720.093911757@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 00:27:54 +0300 Cc: Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <56BAD843-DB8B-41AF-BC1A-D29BAAD23680@gmail.com> References: <0CCA78BD-201C-4668-A013-24A3F6F4EC87@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <1595699283.358416190@apps.rackspace.com> <94003145-2031-454F-8F76-38C153DDFA08@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <1595705720.093911757@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.6) Subject: Re: [Cake] diffserv3 vs diffserv4 X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 21:27:58 -0000 > On 25 Jul, 2020, at 10:35 pm, David P. Reed = wrote: >=20 > And to be clear, AQM (cake, being an example) is not about bandwidth = allocation. It does focus on latency/queueing-delay, for the most part. Cake is not *just* an AQM, though I understand your point. It is a = qdisc with many interwoven functions. Cake's Diffserv support is neither a pure priority scheme nor a pure = bandwidth allocation. By using a hybrid of the two for bandwidth = allocation, I was hoping to avoid the main pitfalls that the simple = Bell-headed approaches routinely encounter. Each tin also has its own = AQM parameters, which feed into the distinction between high-throughput = and low-latency classes of traffic. There are doubtless other approaches that could be tried, of course. = And there might be endless debate over exactly how many traffic classes = are actually needed; I don't think five is the right number, and the = symmetry argument is not persuasive. But can we at least agree that = Cake's attempt is a step in the right direction? - Jonathan Morton