From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 929E93B2A4; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:20:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id v77so20573722wmv.0; Thu, 09 Feb 2017 06:20:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=2uh2mCiP4CLjeo8LCJ3wPskfOf6X2UaVCQyh+nrsRM4=; b=OUrvM80Nyk2YMaEY5NL/E82roYxj5lDSE2INNk9mabsIgpHu4i2oxcRSXKdGPTVLbI 4F8A0TLjBDI8TqNiKSUmZefiTYGsTgjc++nZIG5s7rp+ROMoUd0Edi+yuXVAjODdbSkN A4HCKZc2P7jWoFxK18NIe3zpxA0DUHNde0MtcI5kPjIxyWpSS/eGpQeJEocKUEh1jeiJ JIKcemzrGPX1NYN03ewZDVLS99s0cZsCGYCrGGGzI9Pz2C8n8PiB1iBja74qWFlO+Yp/ wh/tkqZvOZE6PWGHuZfB3vYMgTloZxHb95+e1+IQCX0xCiIXolaXMTL+wLamNES5hpyo W1nw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=2uh2mCiP4CLjeo8LCJ3wPskfOf6X2UaVCQyh+nrsRM4=; b=IbXbB6LuzpdqL5Fcgh2/ZCdH8MMSjW0q78PPoqCjNczgN+toEdQ+a7/n/LN4b/5IZ3 Plw455UajYkueOd+19vSr2VfbsW2/vpTHCVRcBnGY7lRgvKD28Gn2dVoHEfiVmR6ZUCm GcgdA2shEfUDa99CUVKtMsSTrPttVn88Y/qlnaYISWgep3FNUXNwmaO0Se8fgwPOf+iP RIrX2d4hsCKmwlSLA+Ngux9Zy2hHSYPciBSC7hP5Ma8D/dO5/puuBj/G/oruDRmj5A4Y OWPQZRnBcKDskeCOQCuiJoElfrR7JFxypxwAwoTCfVaGBctvx0sQzVzUo6kaXNDTZTXq 02uA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39mUXovstF/2YwgrrOKlFTcYPDnp7we3YpHazsLw9HmXRvuE0l+z6rIU90MV2+cx0w== X-Received: by 10.28.220.135 with SMTP id t129mr24962145wmg.38.1486650022615; Thu, 09 Feb 2017 06:20:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.0.20] (h-1169.lbcfree.net. [185.99.119.68]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x69sm9102002wma.15.2017.02.09.06.20.20 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 09 Feb 2017 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D5312D1B-19EB-4CF5-92E0-A0C73E347F52" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Pete Heist In-Reply-To: <87y3xfsc93.fsf@toke.dk> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 15:20:21 +0100 Cc: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-Id: <5700DFDD-C5C6-482E-A89C-2DB052DA61F0@gmail.com> References: <32C42951-373F-4D90-8936-AA07039E5D73@gmail.com> <877f5c2pew.fsf@toke.dk> <878tpqge5g.fsf@toke.dk> <877f52rz68.fsf@toke.dk> <87bmucu0gs.fsf@toke.dk> <87y3xfsc93.fsf@toke.dk> To: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] Flent results for point-to-point Wi-Fi on LEDE/OM2P-HS available X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 14:20:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D5312D1B-19EB-4CF5-92E0-A0C73E347F52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 9, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen = wrote: >=20 >> Also, could the queue management code be abstracted into a separate >> module, so it can be replaced, like a qdisc? I don=E2=80=99t know if = the >> disparity between hardware makes this too difficult or not=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Well it's abstracted into mac80211 so all wireless drivers can use it > (theoretically; right now only ath9k, ath10k and the not-yet-merged = mt76 > do). Making it more generic than that is not possible, since it's tied > to the mac80211 data structures. Which is kinda the point; the whole > problem was that a "generic layer" (the qdisc) didn't work well > enough... Nice. :) I=E2=80=99ll mention one example I noticed of the kind of adjustment = that probably can=E2=80=99t be done from the qdisc layer today. On page = 3 from http://pollere.net/Pdfdocs/noteburstymacs.pdf = : "In addition to increasing the interval by the waiting delay s, another = adjustment might be useful for certain kinds of bursty MACs. If the MAC = is a request-and-grant type, as wifi in infrastructure mode, cable = modems and some satellite modems, the allocation of bytes or packets = that can be sent during each transmission slot is generally known at the = beginning of transmission and may vary for each transmission slot. In = that case, it MAY be useful to use that value instead of the MTU value = to reset first_above_time_."= --Apple-Mail=_D5312D1B-19EB-4CF5-92E0-A0C73E347F52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Feb 9, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen = <toke@toke.dk> = wrote:

Also, could the queue = management code be abstracted into a separate
module, so = it can be replaced, like a qdisc? I don=E2=80=99t know if the
disparity between hardware makes this too difficult or = not=E2=80=A6

Well it's = abstracted into mac80211 so all wireless drivers can use it
(theoretically; right now only ath9k, ath10k and the = not-yet-merged mt76
do). Making it more generic than that = is not possible, since it's tied
to the mac80211 data = structures. Which is kinda the point; the whole
problem = was that a "generic layer" (the qdisc) didn't work well
enough...

Nice. :)

I=E2=80=99ll mention one example I = noticed of the kind of adjustment that probably can=E2=80=99t be done = from the qdisc layer today. On page 3 from http://pollere.net/Pdfdocs/noteburstymacs.pdf:

"In addition to = increasing the interval by the waiting delay s, another = adjustment might be useful for certain kinds of bursty MACs. If the = MAC is a request-and-grant type, as wifi in infrastructure = mode, cable modems and some satellite modems, the allocation of = bytes or packets that can be sent during each transmission = slot is generally known at the beginning of transmission and may vary = for each transmission slot. In that case, it MAY be useful to = use that value instead of the MTU value to = reset first_above_time_."
= --Apple-Mail=_D5312D1B-19EB-4CF5-92E0-A0C73E347F52--