From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0099.outbound.protection.outlook.com [157.56.112.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA3213B25E for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 05:37:26 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=darbyshire-bryant.me.uk; s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=EWUmmaHxZkhNSLIhJQZBJbzOL47hoemY6PKvJIrwfy4=; b=xNQdJTZXinTmT/CBAWSMn+bZxwAwxIiJdOQPEvfuwdyQpkU6JcZa1L9js4UdLEZeMxJRdIIkx6hZJvEGfY0cpvoN9vWuKVWTFcYsqo/alp1IuMcYOXNZMScMku7ctvcYpliQQJzSaLXh8VXXP/KG59gAaXilU83GqMeM4XXK+g4= Authentication-Results: lists.bufferbloat.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; lists.bufferbloat.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=darbyshire-bryant.me.uk; Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:183f:da2b::4007:25d] (2001:470:183f:da2b::4007:25d) by AM2PR07MB0932.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.162.37.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.506.9; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 09:37:25 +0000 To: From: Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant Message-ID: <574FFE52.1040501@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 10:37:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [2001:470:183f:da2b::4007:25d] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB4PR07CA018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.229.28) To AM2PR07MB0932.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.162.37.14) X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 3490c296-6efc-4187-5ec2-08d38ac98157 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; AM2PR07MB0932; 2:XMgX+TR5ZHViJwyhTH7EtzG8U+FL1dKFRMVV7q41/CLmCoZKIfoxuzHFXYpmfWbX7zRdL7v01pVdmif1boma3xX4SrThMcehqc8H8HNC4QBHmQYWH3ejQNTy8OxTBsMxOTi7xbmO4dphcYO4EnlPmmXtwUuEaIB8aJnJ17duZCKB6SLsLtZ4lDxvnuzs6uOW; 3:UvXve1JZ+4PoOPXnqO3ZWZ5hEEqlGQo9xSyS03OysiB5fl33V0Y4Mj8Mwjccy9FIDksoD18uVfz1kSj9Ajx8Ac6jiu/r75WKTik1DRDBskV04i6s/iRGBfRGAoTNm5Hy; 25:xLPAcZ6J6cUOdYsjGMvwgFCFTULKaS7rthC02LH6WxCOIVNhFglmzf0Ks1bZm9h3IHDzCTMp2jsKGr8yOntubyqBSXRzmkrk5T/jFLLLkOKxPVw7GDd9AajhVELHhcz0/JcBqpQXaMqigQh/0y3VPcUn0eFrF0oQnc0X+Fx7lz8kxwByXv7JCGWV9gCzTjbX9x/dNo/BbzhykrXGXMaHw19Q+S1yjZVr7+Ha0pYATPmCK+G10/F524MvC0b1AfaqZ0UWm4Plqplt+Kz0QvMqHTomicCjTWyC/PW0kCQEVDHGF836H50Xv/B7sVY8FKccfXJx80HbY9l5N/v7+msmXqLnBvxx4dIewhqzfabuoo8lErouUXm3VMGGtJBfNnUADfAze0Q9rKNUpfQXYzfXMKwAAL2xhfE9BeloKEMQWAY= X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM2PR07MB0932; X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:(166708455590820)(130608784459683)(235534655456582)(788757137089); X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040130)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3002001)(6041072)(6043046); SRVR:AM2PR07MB0932; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM2PR07MB0932; X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; AM2PR07MB0932; 4: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 X-Forefront-PRVS: 0961DF5286 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4630300001)(6009001)(42186005)(5004730100002)(50986999)(33656002)(59896002)(2351001)(54356999)(65806001)(87266999)(229853001)(47776003)(65816999)(65956001)(23676002)(2870700001)(31430400001)(586003)(5008740100001)(6116002)(2906002)(36756003)(8676002)(92566002)(83506001)(81166006)(15975445007)(450100001)(64126003)(50466002)(189998001)(110136002)(80316001)(4001350100001)(19580395003)(74482002)(77096005)(107886002)(86362001)(169013001)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM2PR07MB0932; H:[IPv6:2001:470:183f:da2b::4007:25d]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:nov; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: =?utf-8?B?MTtBTTJQUjA3TUIwOTMyOzIzOlAzKzNkTWUyVnYxZW5mUzVEYk5BQ29BUFMv?= =?utf-8?B?NjIwWTNQUHVKS0JWRWRhdmwyMFhabWVGbnM2RzZwRFZ3STB3VnJUNm54aGww?= =?utf-8?B?RUdHZlBxWlBCUGRoL3RzeFpQYmZiSGFFMnF3aDF2MU5xOWtTazJDcHpXbkNy?= =?utf-8?B?cy9NV0xkSnlXT2tKUEhvNEVRK2x1RnpCUDg0SEdTKzlaR3daRkRrK2dkOG5q?= =?utf-8?B?VkpjNk1QeWloQSt4d1JpYllEVGNqTXdUSFR0WFFPOEM4cDhQdGN0Wm4vbnFM?= =?utf-8?B?bzBKbmJjQjZqejlHTGNoWE52NlZMVmpkY09iekFWeVlxdGEvUlBnZ3ZXamho?= =?utf-8?B?OXB3amNvTUdzTmxkb3Ztbkt0YjdseTFOeEtlMkM1clVlb0UxbEV6b2dCRGpl?= =?utf-8?B?MTQraUtPMTY2UWh5ZEJvcnpoQkU5Zzk1TFRleG5ZRHFjSkkxbldWZ1l0UnBR?= =?utf-8?B?STFNY3pCcGpXT0NZeVVmM0xJRmJlbm80N0lLZFNvMWJkMnBIOUxLTjBFWE1S?= =?utf-8?B?VFhHRUFjTmZCdWp6dzhNVXF2bFpkWDVzNm9jVVM3M2lHTzZlWE91VmZmb2RN?= =?utf-8?B?aWN6R3Q1eWU4L0lEaHJLd3RsdE1nNjhvVHRJZTVscmg0NitldW5KdkdWOVF3?= =?utf-8?B?eHJwNkxpOXN4ekxITzlneWEwRVNDd1A4RS92K21Kam1seWNiNnQwaEJ5OWNU?= =?utf-8?B?ZmpwNU1BeVZVNklpM0F5S3ZwTUJkbVBPMFVTSS9DdHcrSi9IZXlqc0xIZkxH?= =?utf-8?B?alNSOVJHdWk3NW9VbDFrU3VYNHBQMkJaOWxKaW9NaTRBM01vb1VSWTN4SjFW?= =?utf-8?B?MGtWMi9IRkZPSVo5aWRxVFZUVTR5bU9YUHRHRnNKc01Gc3NMR3RCUFhKVDhB?= =?utf-8?B?anVSU1JkNEdGUDhmRCtmTDV4a29vakd6aW5PZFk1ZmdMN0Zaem9YbnN4eXFo?= =?utf-8?B?NG9JY3JwTEdVRTI5Ui8vMjFJTkZTSkZtbWJCN0dRd3FYTUt6enl5Z2JOU2xh?= =?utf-8?B?QUVvb1ZCVEVyWmRHaW5UMDA5U0lBTlRXUUxvZUJyV1BTR2lYNTF1WlZKeFhL?= =?utf-8?B?cDk0Mm1XeXBXdElSdXgrS3kvYi9JeERCQjJBNWtzL2tTbUpybFBoTEQrZnVs?= =?utf-8?B?SEozaG1sTFJKb2hhVm5PUjZ0TzRtRUl3MTU2OHRYUDFzQ3g0dGZzZENacE8v?= =?utf-8?B?cTN2MzM1ejAxUnNnTUN0WUxyaWV3KzMwa3V4RHR1WjBVTUU0SW9LdDlacVpK?= =?utf-8?B?QklLdGIrMWlGUDIrVmtndnA4RU9xUmM0OXpUV0VQdk5PZGRJNTh0OUEra2hI?= =?utf-8?B?YUhVVG9UNVVwL0cxLzEzRmRKeXNmZXphejQ5VU1xRVVCWlN2bTMyWWE3TGUw?= =?utf-8?B?bW1hOGJ3OE9KSi9WbVBSZWhkbFNWUGpoMVZTeHFvTldVby9wUG54TGtQVXVt?= =?utf-8?B?OEpmaUE3SnltZUdoL05kbVRRcVFaSHhBc3cvZVAySWpSakpGcVE2dVFjbWVK?= =?utf-8?Q?tncb7/d+bJhEOrb573mn/xg4s=3D?= X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; AM2PR07MB0932; 5:W2xk+xluS+AHXyDNEhs08srDYvcnKctDl1IdfgBaC/b74uPWaoP9dgffIcPxRye6mzOPD8oIdozsV5gLSNI40HxG/2p9LFksNw9fg1ueHCt1o2Ik1bWmJBx+hKHNGfWgmYJLnTOj5bufBaouw0OJCg==; 24:DuoVeZ0MKHimePyD7V4vkjSoafPPS9s3fjmhiZNIB/JgozD4KsrINeRMF96mCp6Bk5AJvZo1JTcw6Nq0Fc2t5w9RXAkFJAF0wPnSiTXE2wM=; 7:m/jvT0Z5eJruu1Q/P3wMQ0/NH0dpBccWFs9yYVaNIL9mRTJ4wpINaWRBAhOCI9u+oes9Nvx/2OlHy6+Ablh+3LoNZqoxo3i/fJt/DnUFT4bmHDibLfubpvjxtHti2H7NZ02tbbk93jDS+/O+sUsBTUzOLN4bO9CAtdBNxavc/hI061Vo1aVk04U3RLpkBx+h SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: darbyshire-bryant.me.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2016 09:37:25.1168 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM2PR07MB0932 Subject: [Cake] cake/tc - removal of atm/ptm/ethernet specific overhead keywords X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 09:37:27 -0000 Greetings All, In a bid to create yet another day of cake controversy, here's my latest pull request https://github.com/dtaht/tc-adv/pull/12 It removes all the atm/ptm/ethernet specific overhead keywords. I find myself largely in agreement with Sebastian where he said: " I would prefer very much if we could just rip the keywords out and just leave “overhead N” in there. As is the keywords are inconsistent in that some act as modifiers that “add” to already specified values while others replace older values whole-sale. Also these keywords do not really simplify the challenges in choosing the correct overhead at all, so my vote would be to go from today’s: [ atm | noatm* ] [ overhead N | conservative | raw* ] to: [ atm | noatm* ] [ overhead N | raw* ] So, instead of documenting the keywords, remove even more (and add an info/error message to tc to warn users still using the old ones). If that is not acceptable then I would propose to simply create named keywords for the individual components that make up the overhead and apply these in an additive fashion, like: ppp pppoe ethernet llc snap atmpad aal5sar which would translate into: 2 + 6 + 14 + 3 + 5 + 2 + 8 = 40 So, I propose to just take the components and their names from https://web.archive.org/web/20150606220856/http://ace-host.stuart.id.au/russell/files/tc/tc-atm/ and ad vlan, mac, and fcs to the mix (and maybe the effective additional overhead required to shape ethernet, IFG and friends). But honestly I believe we would be better off by directing users to decent information how to deduce the applicable overhead in each individual case. Say the link above and maybe a link to https://github.com/moeller0/ATM_overhead_detector might be of more help than trying to simply a complex situation? While at it, I also would remove the “conservative” keyword since with that we make a promise to our users we might not be able to keep as we have no guarantee of a maximum overhead possible. " I agree that pointing people to decent info and/or having a small table in the cake man page with the same info as the now dropped overhead commands would be far better. My concession is to keep the conservative keyword. For people who are unwilling to go into this (and I expect those same people would not be interested in Sebastian's ppp pppoe ethernet llc....' keyword set) it is *likely* that the addition of a whole ATM user cell is going to cover the overhead. I'd be sort of interested to know if anyone is actually using those keywords: ipoa-vcmux, ipoa-llcsnap, bridged-vcmux, bridged-llcsnap, ppoa-vcmux, pppoa-llc, pppoe-vcmux, pppoe-llcsnap, pppoe-ptm, bridged-ptm, via-ethernet, ether-phy, ether-all, ether-fcs, ether-vlan. How many actually knew they even existed? Yours controversially, Kevin