From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90BE53B2A4 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.250.101] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M5q45-1f41Ew30vZ-00xv0n; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:54:19 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <53AFD81B-F9F5-4DE1-A418-A177D0F339E8@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:54:19 +0100 Cc: Jonathan Morton , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5FD7BE71-CD6B-4C2F-8149-54763F43C519@gmx.de> References: <7B914FA7-38A6-4113-9B2C-D6246873676A@gmail.com> <1493791193941.83458@telenor.com> <53AFD81B-F9F5-4DE1-A418-A177D0F339E8@gmail.com> To: Pete Heist X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Cu/TfM5nNIckAW2puRyuLt8ZOOutanK3NT0sCuP29OH4DcPl3GQ Fq+5JTztLSbtZZfHna/1XJqszT0SsCaWHvoiaX9WoycDAR5WwNHK/n+ATyVSofWz+Gr2xco MUFd6bJW+0uTl2hYqNMKUJz2bpe1U9iL5/4CPpc2rBKItuFiMNY0E9dhStdEs/N+k/fvzse MY71mes2xP16lzd3jwx8g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:cgCfDqGvF0w=:iiG7YCdDF1G7WfIxkr+wx3 Zp+t03BhTVBKbBVfhLznsOyljUvD6rkTk2O0dwLdGmnUP8FLT3KTqorfWd1f7UmrjWtzYWjwo EvAcrHhs/IJ2A8Vw5Z92Zt44w/fa5Az2q7naronS4bz0fBoQ5djUoTUgW2DyEwXIJXX5gFAKM q1n9I4letZQSitMvnBCwhroLTzKmasiCcyC1zxseL4H7S3q1aW7tjT4xfC3KzeHo2bhtlK8Xi XjMFe5kXTAfMIWqvSGF+C70RezdahLapcH7/TJMQhzrtm3u+Kgk42sq/WS281X8H/bLpizBjD OUvgb0oW2IyoMzMPgEpcXUnn6QdZ+sQRKDMJqRLXDhlzzZ7UMrKyvzI45fPw94Y81VfmKyCwq i0DZtWjtoeQL9apyp5oENZ1QSPiD+kVk9nFLmU6i76oBVFqNk4L4x7woJOB8k+PZUJfFgkXg6 hgtnslkh1rmw0jrLRhOMh2x1y8Oj/8Q0f+6HfHCYSkIR03FTwa8uhFxad4SGyDPxw/x/ofHKg +n5dl8hnB4/aft5SeWysgkmJYctmz6zMrPqzBCHfMuERpVyyx1zpVLlAZctERqOzSVy29BlAF i+o3znbMf5GOOXwGbwZq2fziu6bCHSrwyUfl3671PfXOhzIhvrnxolDF7HSlQnEh0JGSfFzT0 cyhEHvh2SsJbaLbk/6tR4UBZ7gUv0mZ788/OHatLT33k42YIfPhDavpeOuH1vO9vAIRvquA8M Ne+v6YrSJV5yWZDzcvwCnZOA7ERPvvoYbgNZyQJM2x6XGmI28zIF1BK5BS6+nlBcX0i4pX2qB sVWV/IoEMIFhyNhF23X7yx3IgXzPwihqL8Xnc3xEjry8HbjhZs= Subject: Re: [Cake] Recomended HW to run cake and fq_codel? X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:54:21 -0000 Well, how about keeping it simple and just give the latency increment under = full (bidirectional) link saturation (I guess a catchy acronym might be = found)? Yes this is a number where lower is better, but it also has = immediate information (like: "mmmh, at an added 3seconds under load, = VoIP might suffer a bit if I start heavy torrenting..."). I am not opposed to the inverse per se and I also like the "bigger is = better" property, but mental division is hard and the period seems to be = more informative than the frequency. But at this point anything that = will get some traction will be a winner... Best Regards Sebastian > On Nov 27, 2017, at 13:47, Pete Heist wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Nov 27, 2017, at 1:04 PM, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >> My pet suggestion here is to represent latency as its inverse, = "responsiveness" with units of Hz. This has the dual advantages of = bigger numbers being better, and the figures being directly comparable = with framerates. >>=20 >> As you say, the methodology will need to be very carefully specified, = so that we get a meaningful measurement that's hard to game. >>=20 > I like that idea... >=20 > Then it=E2=80=99s how to measure it. 1 / latency where latency is = what=E2=80=A6the maximum value you=E2=80=99ll see considering all = traffic as besteffort at a fixed number of concurrent flows? Otherwise = it would have do be expressed differently for different traffic classes, = which is probably already too complicated for most people. >=20 > Food for thought, I know this is the opposite direction, but I=E2=80=99v= e always liked in Europe how car =E2=80=9Cmileage=E2=80=9D is expressed = as consumption (L/100km) instead of efficiency (miles/gallon). Yes, then = a lower number is better, but it=E2=80=99s easier to calculate how much = gas you=E2=80=99ll use for a given trip. > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake