From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-1" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6797421F53D for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2015 09:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from hms-beagle.am28.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.92.147]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M7ojs-1aEcaK0gsK-00vRkj; Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:45:40 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:45:44 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <62B84B79-3092-480A-90D0-ED79955917D8@gmx.de> References: To: =?windows-1252?Q?Dave_T=E4ht?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:iQUW5pzVYEcWI7zqXNLvFIUgekJRVeGb7bJ61BVeAV5AkKnEadf waX/bNApKfiKo5LbTqawDjMLfcmTOdt+5v7G09g1bC96U2WhkufJvcfFwTwp8wYoTuWw6v9 JpTMyi/jLDrvjEkCX9PBxp4C26SPJzS2CKItaTN/5wIP2TDmM7zktCDiFiTd+fVrGcGD3GW 1ASMFjZy12/lXiN2eOQHQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:YCOE+2dXrAY=:0MsBZwm24iy+FgTKfeUN6s HTWTc2TQlafIUzKBcuxFeT1xe0l0ZhW+Tt2yyj55UlzkWIV7K6VfUdTOJ9w+pikbc8EdxGODV khfEMyhJnYr51AMiFyaSYt1Qy89p3w22HLSodcSaNte9Sr/1qFT2LlYKy8hd4weNKUpeIYF/J 7ulCs8Q30yqrCMIaAjZMeeF70smHudX7aKojjy2ke7ZceX/z93HAjS0Dhti9ut9hrsE8pK09T IRI3sMm/F+4Rx9+lY7ExDri8CH0IQLbt6BjT1hFWwi2eT6hhlizKQ1IIQHB2uzy8X4s97AXTv Hyg+dVc3GW6rZwyJ4PU61Yk/7sRHrbgLLRnrGwq0xXuiTCxCQjhQhzb3dwn1L9etUEbHg5DEL 1N2kGmJhB4qSy7SJz2wxRO2seNDOPQgfKZzw1ihNAYX69j77TRTSCxWiX8FxnAjztPoJYsV7U rFhYe5DOvy3XTEizbRF7Ux1HjU50oFl5v3BcZ+rMYNZn6UP279+LAjqBlACPimp8f+W9pClVL Vq9ybugfoEMUkFii6KInVpLYDbpg1Qsa3hR6CO58Bld1etXqyX7ANoQCwJHMmAUHE297VGWUk xBqTbM5bK6Yhw2wBgZyRmyx2n+ZsdUWWkslcYlB1VF04qKNjsks1Ew/GJMsQfvqfU9uyWgw4N YZVIr1V0b61daMUSXANWExQINM/1RyvEPS027FftDCdKRP7IdUuUhqTEe0aNdFFmxgJQMbhyG a39cGYNKSqiIJk/R7AAgKc5OJa+6PFL3slQR//s0xbQzyBMjdgRiXAA0HoOFWQFC4MexlFgl2 xq6LLwM Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cake] basic cake X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 17:46:08 -0000 Hi Dave, On Nov 25, 2015, at 18:30 , Dave Taht wrote: > On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >> Hi Dave, >>=20 >> On Nov 25, 2015, at 17:02 , Dave Taht wrote: >>=20 >>> Last night I went about removing nearly every unproven "feature" = that >>> has been added to cake since july, in part to establish a baseline = for >>> a performance comparison directly against sqm-scripts with >>> htb+fq_codel, on low end hardware, and in part, to be able to test >>> each newer feature >>> more fully on the testbed. >>=20 >> Oh, shiny, want have ;) So the plan is to assess the = performance cost of each of the individual features to allow a better = rationale to justify keeping or rejecting specific ones? Sounds like a = excellent idea. >=20 > pithy note here: >=20 > = https://github.com/dtaht/bcake/commit/4b9e6035bfa0160fa3fdaddcf1722c1cf924= afa9 Oh, I am all for a) testing things properly before setting = defaults, b) actually expose toggles for important parameters (toggles = that better be followed, if I request "target 1 ms=94 I am fine with = cake whining/complaining in the log, I am not fine with cake just = (silently) doing what it thinks best; but we have been there before and = I failed to convince enough people on that approach, so that boat has = sailed and now instead of one cake with one toggle we have 2 cakes = without toggles ;) (note I do like the implement and test one change at = a time approach,)) >=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> The very long list of commits is here, complete with pithy comments, >>> in the separate repo. >>>=20 >>> https://github.com/dtaht/bcake/commits/master >>>=20 >>> I would like it if someone using a low end home router could = benchmark >>> this version of cake >>> against the mainline version. >>=20 >> Hrmmm, for that I would need to build my own firmwares, let=92s = see whether I am up for that=85 oh, will newcake still accept all of = tc-adv=92s command line arguments (and simply ignore them?) >=20 > I am keeping the api for now. Great that will make comparative testing easier... >=20 > I note that first up is cake besteffort flowblind 384k and cake > besteffort flowblind 1mbit, with 5ms target. My hypothesis is that cake will stay longer in the drop state = than required, effectively sacrificing more bandwidth (per flow) than = necessary to reach the sojourn target. Cake=92s approach to dequeue = nicely time based should make sure packet sojourn time will actually be = a good correlate at what happens at the real bottle-neck. Now I am = curious what the results will be? So to risk a prediction, without the = target adjustment or the 1 packet is always allowed shortcut original = codel took, cake will sacrifice more bandwidth reducing effective = throughput. I have no good idea for latency of un-related sparse flows, = but would assume they will suffer a bit as well (entering drop state = immediately?). Anyway looking forward to the results. >=20 > While we have established that "bad things happen", I really don't > know what they look like. We have a lot of tools > for generating traffic, but no pictures of what actually happens. Yes, +1 for better/more visualizations. >=20 > But you might want to skip this round of testing before we establish > this baseline and move on. Given the sorry state of my home network, I probably should wait = a bit ;). Best Regards Sebastian >=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> My plan, such as it is, is to keep simplifying, and testing. I = still >>> don't get the new hashing >>> API.... >>>=20 >>> This reduction effort was fruitful in that I found yet another way = to >>> reuse "now"=85 >>=20 >> As long as there are few enough cycles between the uses that = sounds wonderful, otherwise now degrades to once ;) >>=20 >>> fixed one bug, maybe spotted another... >>>=20 >>> Toke has been busy with flent, which has gained a really abusive = 1000 >>> tcp flows test, >>=20 >> bidirectional by any chance? Sort of the full internet = simulator for home-routers? >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards >> Sebastian >>=20 >>> and >>> the ability to parse qdisc statistics, so long as you tell flent = where >>> to get them from: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --test-parameter qdisc_stats_hosts=3Dlocalhost\ >>> --test-parameter qdisc_stats_interfaces=3D$IFACE\ >>>=20 >>> http://snapon.cs.kau.se/~d/newcake/t >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Dave T=E4ht >>> Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! >>> https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cake mailing list >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake >>=20