Re: [Bloat] The "Some Congestion Experienced" ECN codepoint - a new internet draft -

["Holland, Jake" <jholland@akamai.com>]

+1, I agree SCE on its own isn't enough.

Before I support adoption as a proposed standard I'd want real-world tests
demonstrating the value.  I believe SCE has potential similar to L4S by
providing a similar fine-grained congestion signal, and that it does so
in a much cleaner way.

But there's a big gap between "has potential" and "has proven benefit" that
I'd want to see filled before it's an RFC.

That said, I would like to see experiments go forward, and I would like to
see this become an active draft that a wg owns, so that if the experiments
do prove there's utility that can be captured, it has a good path forward.

I have concerns about L4S, and so my relief is about seeing a cleaner
(and backward compatible!) proposal that does something that to me looks
like a very similar effect.  And I would very much like to see a bakeoff
of some sort before committing ECT(1) to the use of L4S, since it seems
to me there are some ugly problems down that road.

Cheers,
Jake

On 2019-03-11, 02:47, "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Mar 2019, Jonathan Morton wrote:
    
    >> On 11 Mar, 2019, at 11:07 am, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
    >>
    >> Well, I am not convinced blowing the last codepoint on SCE has enough merit.
    >
    > I will make a stronger statement: I am convinced that blowing the last codepoint on L4S does *not* have enough merit.
    
    ... and I believe that blowing it on SCE doesn't have merit either.
    
    That's the entire thing why I am opposing the use of ECT(1) unless we're 
    *really* *really* *really* sure there is something we want to blow it on.
    
    Using it for SCE for me is marginal benefit compared to what ECT(1) could 
    be used for either. I think L4S is proposing enough novelty that it could 
    be used for that, but I'm open for other suggestions. SCE isn't enough.
    
    -- 
    Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
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