From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2B193B29E; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 05:40:25 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1665394822; bh=ojr5Ph65eYY1UL2xAWjD69rDL8/nS8DO7ZFwbvatl+s=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=iNEYEd2XAnqYMXRNGk5H3YhhhKnlB+HAkRpRAdEiLOZQBLaMtqE+pGdaHq+ycCvmH rNhR4lEcgDL1cJq+qIHFoXtIjw/vdBY4KNVhlc/Yn4WON9j8TtRDPac/qSxxWiDkXz +d4iWO2DUBEElgIOrQHVMkElgrp090YeDwIgeCfA= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N33Ed-1pB0NX1GVp-013OSU; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:40:22 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:40:21 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Rpm , bloat , Make-Wifi-fast , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <72674884-9E0D-4645-B5F5-C593CC45A8F0@gmx.de> References: To: Taraldsen Erik X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qeuw31/1O3iCf7TyDXNaRx+hrYUTjRC4B3YjSqTW7QkwBq0zExO xYTuN5/uEIAxtag/nc31fmdKBMeMdNeuLM5d/bO+q989odDh/I0+WOoL8UEbOlZz1OPm5Ih hLLVRGMJNJeffI4RIGq3P7vvZrATsn4lzmI4iOG0dyneqng9wwqVCdF7k2usBsqkFyrOX0N Qny1taXOdxaL0h+0+84KA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:pQVIX+MGEkI=:PpGkNCDCWkIlii6GdShsTo Z7tSv9RoDT3QSteiI/TArn+yOZQmZiqhuIx03wnSp/RsP5RCTCHyJ64e/08z6F5OE5TcIGgcv NT7G2hbOPCF52W/qJOgbb8ysJG4iyFpoN35WWtGy/4itQxPyLNbh9BN3b4bN2FC+k/HWv2ITY sj9IY7Yx/F9TYqzBJ6tFlzEBBlr9DVdVr92t41f3GffybU9NqB3+D0gGBXRcjOd+WLtEl3B+k MbXlWqQZmtnoGhyaoaE5pHuNHzlk+CJIEmWaHDFrrXw02lDTvLbHf8dlSoP2rRE2OoduKsrei RUTFrc00yVGisM1mK5llgI4Mj8WqWqp7LXtsQhwu89wy7WtjehUcWnFO8MVxmgyGZ78hyoyQS PLqS4WdL2lbm1HC7c+dcrGt9W4wSh/jjH8dblNJkKiakvWBr80/ilg+Wu1tpAg4ZZgeQgQxnC GWDZxocPoHJAwLjfd2Mfg0dCBdc5ZDpGgKbQUkD5JuWnGclPoszRUJC6prb00xd70tRy0MvPX zrPNGUeONra6sdMDfk3nAqTaahae2xAVMyyq615LXjajeN7+j/8MvEQd4TI4c861b6WWsC5DO LwCHHMUChwxo6b9pu3elv35Au3yWMmH97a2zv+7SJdn1gpUJy0wo5t9phB1cI6XYpynaafrsE baN+LlOt34NDmkkvKBcqFU/sty34Exuf0jOaCKZb10Un17GVLmmLaf4gvY3lY9SuSOqJAYuPx T5SIg4xfUj5x4wncgtkUTS23EijH6pejMBS/tqxm8NpG5RXCMiDCjkW1MNnDBK6d98vbGSbKB v2D35hE9SMdy4NC1TRSA/N8YuYCa0jbWlA3enfRU4QJp75jA5MxZKS4X4A/xq1JsMyvLFfm27 zKvkoy29QcvWO+YAoURx412hyVpo7xtMuQtYYRQO91/6l97A8fuO4C0vix9UcFc3L8sL0a00V kR4QmO3gf/LL3l8+kxuQfoK1fV+f6fYtdafmW8K2kJ4eGT2wUYhOAIt+7WmzAWPDNjwYW27W3 nZwTsDxUg+Rl03/Y0iMM2e6RbsyvmYc5gNj9KuL4XvXLZkxwVRD0fZbBCwdTLWGdC2wRcsXy2 tocAdDxqo1DIkgwkoU4FBBHC+YOCCtVaKNUqgh+qPFiXBz587ohsYEw/sinYluU8vFoAudgPO xQna9CN3BHkw7TcUHaa8EfG4q7tgkVqNavDIPf94KnP07Y6Nz0Jgq5TjYa4IPqPkjXrn4GOrq yThE8n9cPnHvvGXmlxmLDB8P+Rk5PCqvqrPDaZP4JTP8kzfFuymMrAiNvnfhCXRg4kMqxl00m /L9VYGvma9lPaj+U9zD3uZTY8YAvmejRo++n74TNLcMOWVio2PmEOeB4ocGUFTY5QrWUS9aH9 6gw5qhtQczaXxPjWsv8EmXFUOPeW+m7R7RH8/jjIeB+hcbKrZLiSZg3Q7cxG2YDv9SQu1pOBz oNn8qbMDyFDK+Un8TPEN+9grCLizYL1+dgR2QtLLG++O0P48UwT+zpaFrzqaeX8Cbs9mGkFu5 7gSy//ZgCoxAx9nBWFzv1YJFZ7i2f1MxQetHSVUByJ/Hg Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 09:40:26 -0000 Hi Erik, > On Oct 10, 2022, at 11:32, Taraldsen Erik = wrote: >=20 > On 10/10/2022, 11:09, "Sebastian Moeller" wrote: >=20 > Nice! >=20 >> On Oct 10, 2022, at 07:52, Taraldsen Erik via Cake = wrote: >>=20 >> It took about 3 hours from the video was release before we got the = first request to have SQM on the CPE's we manage as a ISP. Finally = getting some customer response on the issue.=20 >=20 > [SM] Will you be able to bump these requests to higher-ups and = at least change some perception of customer demand for tighter latency = performance? >=20 > That would be the hope. [SM} Excellent, hope this plays out as we wish for. > We actually have fq_codel implemented on the two latest generations = of DSL routers. Use sync rate as input to set the rate. Works quite = well. [SM] Cool, if I might ask what fraction of the sync are you = setting the traffic shaper for and are you doing fine grained overhead = accounting (or simply fold that into a grand "de-rating"-factor)? > There is also a bit of traction around speedtest.net's inclusion of = latency under load internally. =20 [SM] Yes, although IIUC they are reporting the interquartile = mean for the two loaded latency estimates, which is pretty conservative = and only really "triggers" for massive consistently elevated latency; so = I expect this to be great for detecting really bad cases, but I fear it = is too conservative and will make a number of problematic links look OK. = But hey, even that is leaps and bounds better than the old only idle = latency report. > My hope is that some publication in Norway will pick up on that score = and do a test and get some mainstream publicity with the results. [SM] Inside the EU the challenge is to get national regulators = and the BEREC to start bothering about latency-under-load at all, "some = mainstream publicity" would probably help here as well. Regards Sebastian >=20 > -Erik >=20 >=20 >=20