From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-1" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90A0121F25A for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 01:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u-089-d065.biologie.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.89.65]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LqylH-1aTsnI1wyh-00ecJH; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:06:43 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:06:41 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7AE5EAF1-4177-466F-AEFA-3198F03F24B7@gmx.de> References: <5627B90D.8070106@alvestrand.no> <43B59C2F-4B64-4318-8339-04903AF2A6AC@cisco.com> <34EEB0FF-1922-42B5-A778-9BB66B7C4FDC@csperkins.org> To: Justin Uberti X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:u4BMFdfeICW8r4GD0kEABVxhGSMXnpy1ifRNVzWxjjBe8MBHhZw QXH267cgGYblqL+b789QUvRe2tkXcQyCjd9PiwvWOruO4Fftg/8+73MbVGYGAT+oghFkbgP 02+nTi5o0SOLsaTGH0ZS6IwDspASyZ/zVPlN1d44xnhck/V90lpiSx5lhTftPCs9pxO6Cz+ sNi6O20fSlKomvULp7woQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:rFEWZKM8324=:BzE1fYQaZJIzjPnsO5qql6 TsS820dEY3urCIY7jhBhQEkc15TB6UclMmKkvXBMLZFJkU9prabx1sZfgSB9He6gLiF+KJb0Y fzjLHABAKCVtZs35SBOSQAo6d5A73JOUMCZr4wIk+o5p1mWBGHNPvV5juAXNekwZRtNBbVP5T LIjAF9bD99SkxPb/p/9NHQtUaUNbbpo7buD68qKFa5Pac6pJOK7RqKJ/HbpCBf0sFk5DqIuJ/ IDt6HgYNqRJ4Z8oGOAcfweGlyisRLXFMWWnuy1FiHxyPHJGGk1rBLBOR0IXPYsGjZRopuiuWB UBnoW8Tgbk9m04RuMGb4IZw9JgEM2nMQ2H4/jVNeIbFgGLkgp+n2uachUbeKwckXKT7v+PwuG wCEFm8QYwplXB4NlShTLm+vPrv1OzlsCTmk6wDoF0klx46HUlQuQXbD+ltEhOcFvOBYt2S7Tz CBYQh4v1HMshE/6C4KGrjXdo0UuNrcqXcr4fKuDALq2da/vhfHOb6GhuJEuMOn830Ig+JJZ/O DhNHCc7tFJNsR9D+gTdJy2HOwiERlD7HZ0VpyX2Z726olXcT3A7kDpsapqebBcYqE+U4egRsJ Qrkq6fcWBbpPj5NgW5FsYGocYMgB9Y+AdOyP0ZZePqLTG29jrThQBKN4+2Pq+IdU2xmaP9dvg pSkHH7QEJqX3wS2zXDfefWAO2GnAsmoI9MipsL8tCyVwqhbiIaTOt8fkOcTwxd+T0ZmAOuAqY JPFFLVVRIWRTQosJMaYBVT7u/f8gB64R+IiF5p91I328EZUT6qZOXffRwwx0AjGfUAkGOwB1o mC/Mu6R Cc: "Pal Martinsen \(palmarti\)" , "aqm@ietf.org" , "cake@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , Colin Perkins Subject: Re: [Cake] [rmcat] [rtcweb] Catching up on diffserv markings X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:07:15 -0000 Hi Justin, On Oct 22, 2015, at 21:54 , Justin Uberti wrote: > At present I'm not aware of any widely-deployed OS where an app can = read the received ECN markings.=20 >=20 > iOS9 added support for this within the kernel, and it's used for TCP, = but not exposed to userspace. There is an open Radar bug asking for this = info to be exposed to userspace. >=20 > FWIW, Chrome supports setting the DSCP markings if you set a magic = parameter. But it's not on by default, mainly because we've never done = the auditing necessary to ensure this doesn't randomly break in various = dimly-lit parts of the internet. Slightly related question, is this DSCP marking capability = restricted to webrtc packets or is there a way to make chrome use = (arbitrary) DSCP marks for all its packets? For exercising different = priority banding schemes such an option would be perfect (say to test = whether a aqm+qos system will allow snappy browsing even with heavy = download/upload/bittorrent traffic in other priority bands; this test is = especially interesting if all traffic sources can reside on the same = host, as this is a quite common set-up in home networks, one computer = that does everything concurrently and where the users still want a = decent browsing experience). Best Regards Sebastian >=20 > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 2:13 AM, Colin Perkins = wrote: >> On 22 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 21 Oct 2015, at 18:10, Harald Alvestrand = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Den 21. okt. 2015 17:51, skrev Dave Taht: >>>> I unsubscribed from rmcat and rtcweb groups a while back after I = got >>>> overloaded, and appear.in started working so well, (for both ipv6 = and >>>> ipv4! I use it all day long now!), to focus on finishing up the new >>>> "cake" qdisc/shaper/aqm/QoS system, among other things. >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/CakeTechnical >>>>=20 >>>> Cake is now entering the testlab, and among other things, it has >>>> support for the diffserv markings discussed in the related, now >>>> concluded dart wg, but in ways somewhat different from that = imagined >>>> there. We have not got any good code in our testbeds yet to test >>>> videoconferencing behavior, and we could use some, although it does >>>> look like we can drive firefox with some remote control stuff with = a >>>> fixed video playback now.... >>>>=20 >>>> Five questions: >>>>=20 >>>> 1) Has anyone implemented or tested putting voice and video on two >>>> different 5-tuples in any running code out there? >>>=20 >>> All VC systems I know of except WebRTC-based ones do it, AFAIK. >>> It=92s putting them on the same that's unusual. >>>=20 >> That sounds like the world I am living in as well. >>=20 >>=20 >>>> 2) How about diffserv markings in general? Do any browsers or = webrtc >>>> capable software support what was discussed way back when? >>>=20 >>> I know Hangouts did something like that internally, on the = controlled >>> network. But not according to spec. >>>=20 >>>> 3) Were diffserv marking changes eventually allowed on the same = 5-tuple? >>>=20 >>> Yes, with caveats. draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos has the table. >>>=20 >>>> 4) Did the ECN support that was originally in one draft or another >>>> ever make it into any running code? >>>=20 >>> I don't know. I think we lost it from the docs. >>>=20 >>>> (yea, apple plans to turn on ecn universally in their next OS!) >>>>=20 >> So how would ECN work on UDP? I do not think the necessary bits from = the IP header are available for the application to do anything. I do = think Linux supports this, have not tested. >>=20 >> And what about the network, would it support UDP when setting the ECN = bits? Probably a configuration related problem if not supported. >=20 > RFC 6679 describes how to use ECN with RTP on UDP, although as you say = there are implementation difficulties on some platforms. I=92m not sure = whether there are implementations.=20 >=20 >=20 >>>> 5) What else did I miss in the past year I should know about? >>>=20 >>> For TCP and SCTP congestion controllers, we're back to one DSCP = marking >>> per flow, and resetting the congestion control state if DSCP marking >>> changes. >>>=20 >>=20 >> There is a new ICE wg. It was created so =93network people=94 could = participate without the overhead of listening to the SDP related = discussions. (https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/) >>=20 >> .-. >> P=E5l-Erik >>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Feel free to contact me off list if these have already been = discussed. >>>> I have totally lost track of the relevant drafts. >>>=20 >>> They're not finished still :-) >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Sincerely, >>>>=20 >>>> Dave T=E4ht >>>> I just lost five years of my life to making the edge >>>> of the internet, and, wifi better. >>>> And, now... the FCC wants to make my work illegal >>>> for ordinary people to install. >>>> https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rtcweb mailing list >>>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Colin Perkins > https://csperkins.org/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake