From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 974C93B260 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id o80so115472350wme.1 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 04:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=kuomF7Tbyw/C0KcmmPcDx9tcxK3g0P4o3RnKzGx3Dt8=; b=Oa8UDSz4Xu4VDUMF/nLIMF2xfku1rs0glDza49foCeIaH1YBLwB7+4JCmjyGrvOROU NYtEt+gE+TKEE8VeQ/0GqV25n55iizVtGPgTsyQTVdiSivqh8W5Hwgz9hGrBuq9UYSpC +/Ws1t6buUzqo5qRRNQkn/kr0GNrOSsUGX89wycYCUZM91sO40k3FHhuy4n9bKCgPjv5 pu3iBTOTFyMNwixB+xhQA1M8KqwTzrKjvgLOS0N/UF9BPuTUVIaBu7H7q3sC+sQNZU+V t7q8WEqwO8Gt9iVFs9rQtV44VSfejp0mmU3h7S07UhbS7QS+KGpXHUSK3ytOPu3CWrIw YCuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=kuomF7Tbyw/C0KcmmPcDx9tcxK3g0P4o3RnKzGx3Dt8=; b=Q0CCSi7fIIr2rJlTrcpcq8eTzJEY8CFnKrX4orelYpJMIflgu3MUHcMhLBS68t5yr3 dwMyvLA6bGqHpYdyBL3IbQqaKM1LfGYdpqrQMjDvX28F/jlSmLdW/pESL0oaRzrIfbNS rehq8LimZt5Zqdias06JHBilIvjT9pTKa1/c/cyy2HauvF1ebvrl2CPS5+TB4pEVyBGq hyjSpTSRuB8XuMKwhwCK1idDKMbQ06ReWFZYZIiQPmyolI81CKTueNopftpVUALBvs/7 ilS8kItbLMPxEqbPOH77JR+ZkQ6357cUDpo0g9cwk9GreMZ1lPZKl03JrTEryCGb3aKd q8pQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwM1rW56/8Ft17hbmSCz8OlG2XtBkIaZQ/mYN4AbWDe9OZqQy8bilUyCObfP+cm81g== X-Received: by 10.194.139.236 with SMTP id rb12mr3314401wjb.101.1472212334010; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 04:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (host-89-243-172-136.as13285.net. [89.243.172.136]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r16sm43350061wme.16.2016.08.26.04.52.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Aug 2016 04:52:12 -0700 (PDT) To: moeller0 , "techicist@gmail.com" References: <96AE5B3F-FDD6-455E-BB08-D4A162EC3F23@gmx.de> <3ed1004a-d688-11ec-c788-d8a456b22b34@gmail.com> <23996FEA-F20C-4654-9A57-792927BCDC83@gmx.de> Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net From: Alan Jenkins Message-ID: <806ee109-52af-743c-799e-4b2ce3340ec4@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 12:52:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <23996FEA-F20C-4654-9A57-792927BCDC83@gmx.de> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9486E714CBD04165A8FB5E8A" Subject: Re: [Cake] Configuring cake for VDSL2 bridged connection X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 11:52:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9486E714CBD04165A8FB5E8A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 26/08/16 12:29, moeller0 wrote: > Hi techicist, > >> On Aug 26, 2016, at 13:15 , techicist@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Is flowblind likely to give better performance? > That depends on your definition of better, I guess. Typically flow-fai= r queuing seems to be what most people prefer (unless an application eith= er does not respond to AQM signals or open an excessive amount of individ= ual flows flow-fair queueing effectively treats most traffic sources equa= l, pretty much what people seem to want, add to this a bit of classificat= ion to exempt e.g. VOIP traffic from only getting its flow-fair share of = the bandwidth and the whole thing also works reasonably well with slow li= nks). People suffering from unruly applications (like mis-configured? bit= -torrent clients or recently windows update) often ask for per-applicatio= n fairness, but that is not something a router will ever be able to deliv= er in my opinion; the closest we get to this would be fairnes by internal= or external end-IP addresses. Luckily cake offers just these modes =E2=80= =9Cdsthost=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csrchost=E2=80=9D and even better offers a c= ombination modes that will on a first level attempt per host-IP fairness = and within each host IP also per-flow fairness (=E2=80=9Cdual-srchost=E2=80= =9D and =E2=80=9Cdual-dsthost=E2=80=9D, and even =E2=80=9Ctriple-isolate=E2= =80=9D which systematically might be better called =E2=80=9Cdual-srchost-= dsthost=E2=80=9D since it offers fist level fairness based on an under-do= cumented mix of src and dst addresses, but I digress). Please note that o= n a typical homerouter, due to NAT, all the IP addressed based fairness m= odes will not work for IPv4 on the wan interface, IPv6 traffic should be = fine, but IPv4 basically degrades into a computationally more intensive v= ersion of flow-fairness (as after NAT cake only sees the routers external= IP for all internal hosts). This might have been more than you wanted to= know=E2=80=A6 > > Best Regards > Sebastian flowblind is an option for testing purposes or advanced use cases. The=20 design goal for Cake is to avoid understanding and fiddling with options = to get good performance for common cases. If you try enabling flowblind, your latency under load will jump by=20 5ms+. "Head of line blocking". A full queue will be 5ms. This will=20 delay flows which do not need a full fair share of the link, like VOIP=20 or gaming. Lower latency is better for VOIP or gaming. You should find this is small compared to the latency increase under=20 load without cake. You wouldn't notice it in web browsing. (Frankly I=20 don't seem to notice 100ms extra latency in web browsing. I run fq_codel for similar performance to cake, mainly to increase my=20 confidence that torrent uploads don't have noticable effects for other=20 household users. Torrent downloads still suck, but I haven't seen any=20 Cake results promoted on that basis. It either needs to be fixed at the = ISP end, or in the torrent software. QUIC are emulating the=20 competitiveness of 2x TCP flows in a single UDP flow. BT should be able=20 to emulate half a TCP flow when downloading from two peers simultaneously= ). --------------9486E714CBD04165A8FB5E8A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+CiAgPGhlYWQ+CiAgICA8bWV0YSBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9 dXRmLTgiIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSI+CiAgPC9oZWFkPgogIDxib2R5IGJn Y29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiIHRleHQ9IiMwMDAwMDAiPgogICAgT24gMjYvMDgvMTYgMTI6Mjks IG1vZWxsZXIwIHdyb3RlOjxicj4KICAgIDxibG9ja3F1b3RlIGNpdGU9Im1pZDoyMzk5NkZF QS1GMjBDLTQ2NTQtOUE1Ny03OTI5MjdCQ0RDODNAZ214LmRlIgogICAgICB0eXBlPSJjaXRl Ij4KICAgICAgPHByZSB3cmFwPSIiPkhpIHRlY2hpY2lzdCwKCjwvcHJlPgogICAgICA8Ymxv Y2txdW90ZSB0eXBlPSJjaXRlIj4KICAgICAgICA8cHJlIHdyYXA9IiI+T24gQXVnIDI2LCAy MDE2LCBhdCAxMzoxNSAsIDxhIGNsYXNzPSJtb3otdHh0LWxpbmstYWJicmV2aWF0ZWQiIGhy ZWY9Im1haWx0bzp0ZWNoaWNpc3RAZ21haWwuY29tIj50ZWNoaWNpc3RAZ21haWwuY29tPC9h PiB3cm90ZToKCklzIGZsb3dibGluZCBsaWtlbHkgdG8gZ2l2ZSBiZXR0ZXIgcGVyZm9ybWFu 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