From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D6253B2A4 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:27:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id c32so37558337lfv.4 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 07:27:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nLWQaQTaT2GkHNOPPj9Np4Z6OKCjH6TNM2dgGrEbeyE=; b=FL0pyVzznirRjIS5jkoVelBREbiMYf4W8cWyD1qkJrWVDRynNaDR0Y0TPUFDEn8MR/ /sRpXOn8tIuXhdz9+BsFPOAt5KtWsO3o2eKokNrEmIrVmVxZr1rjKxHfBU9bj0uopn2D cNTxzQ1BEi12CuAPGgenDEKOF4Y9CHe+yw/o/CHmCIkjCkkmiQngotEHVCCmYrH7S5On igoc3aw06rF++0tv3bPI4JJVmU1mrzGx/hrL1LQ2PBWifshchTciHuZ8cBNrbB7qgnXd AenFWNHnYtMuujTMARExBwnsqvxxW1PgYLl7JohWqSAivmcBz3E8mlkj68a1BWFASWdb zzRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nLWQaQTaT2GkHNOPPj9Np4Z6OKCjH6TNM2dgGrEbeyE=; b=ZN3O1+OSHg2a6SkJ+f9SdPTstsy8ni2pslnoGDhQeG1zSqgzpKhgaNI/mmNRocbPr/ UesZPG6m/ueywRH0KrhrT8TtsGN63XC0emHwuWi+j3oji/JeGdXEooAsakeIibpxhLAZ 6r2u/HZgCVWefh7OlElukvHzZ2qboFPreXLfCefzMVeH5ww1SPvn3GDVBOrAZLOLYi8o 4l5R7FaoKBrfmZBqFBpL0Fi7D937kRWZqV7wiwdsv9s0k2xNEHQmdX1vWdjoHxA6fCo0 wBVdclQVwPuBoDByFoNRXbIQy7HXANaa7a5BmjqORhJBJS+V1XonBUdtO9VkCWOYB0tJ AxUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532NTuG2Mr1LyXwH6/xwyzuM9iqb/KzL7rqpGJdxtpL59krRLPSk 7lIQWLNYgKykKpOpTfaBgZY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxPQYfPJMIPbbf8oUjDH6+iGOL63auZ3CZxChucvekXf02/atzuaC5uhZvMkg9NsdxQiHeaoQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4bc1:: with SMTP id o1mr5355297lfq.183.1639495625871; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 07:27:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (188-67-240-81.bb.dnainternet.fi. [188.67.240.81]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p3sm11559lfh.124.2021.12.14.07.27.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Dec 2021 07:27:05 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 17:27:04 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <80B322E2-FF49-48D6-8ED4-9D7BA0149AF2@gmail.com> References: <18098E06-CB62-4967-B604-268063392C35@gmail.com> <89ECAB12-74A3-40B6-8C0F-D1AA22E40C71@gmail.com> <077B33B9-C1A6-4469-9614-F760A357BD1C@gmx.de> To: Sebastian Moeller X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Subject: Re: [Cake] sometimes I worry about cobalt's effectiveness X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 15:27:07 -0000 >> On 14 Dec, 2021, at 11:59 am, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>=20 >> Could we maybe introduce a no-ecn keyword to switch cake to drop only = mode? If only to help diagnose ECN issues? >=20 > Inserting a firewall rule *before* Cake to force the ECN field to = Not-ECT should suffice for this purpose. Addendum: either this firewall rule should ignore packets that are = already CE-marked, *or* a second firewall rule which *drops* CE-marked = packets should be inserted as well. This avoids erasing congestion = information from any upstream AQM. - Jonathan Morton=