From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00C2A3B2A4 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2017 10:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id t20so64551583wra.1 for ; Thu, 06 Apr 2017 07:18:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=WNVb8QwJs8zJ0IZaYG0+IT0Mr7LdAVwtl7mjQ1A5vUc=; b=PmAUKHsHetTdto6vCIN6nzx0ITDr0tkgD1K8dV2u/bYkh8dTEz5LKSx705ffiQg3wY hCuT3cGv4JHwa+GXh3O0/76vdVdDC3sos8UHQVKsgKz6YdKLFu7ek5T7mRrhisz/eq5W pxJUyGvvTAGCwGK/DtUHCABuoYfjaUR4+LhZC8cX7FIfUwsuFHaeSCrXBjh+I+HpcFkC 2WC/YuKoUQrfZeVfoc9sAZAhWBvwUUfdCh/3uprafEDRU1CC7YB9MrF6WOlwfo8ZJ2N2 /TrL7BMiXlD1zX5htk9+7IbzqvBhOfrWIQBM9yiFBkiWnrTPFGyoT1bBdsO/+erxxurm FQrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to; bh=WNVb8QwJs8zJ0IZaYG0+IT0Mr7LdAVwtl7mjQ1A5vUc=; b=GedlcMNOaHpjsqZyJ55bQeJEIliscsVcKeiNOwvNjDJ9bR2qi9udLEW2b0xh/vgX9q ezkEmku57bYyzqLAqce8QZfi6SVPEyWD71uuueIDVubLdMIu3J3RJ2smkUGgSdJU7MjO RnGGLkuaS87ickHX1FrTYi/Iaau7bs2CQ46yEVKRM9JES6oO1UDh+cQjZ3rSB9Mke9bI Nd+UP7/d1kOHDHr+PtIkhv9wUPkn347OXhCLqwKskeUcDtnIXCzj9bOs/1u3aIZcLaGa suhetaPpILupNGHS9wO8yXSPMb3bmRCxQT8B1n2lHsG0DWtF+r2b02uEGc/Jhj1vh1sT E/4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H0dAC7DBaniemTz7k+wwVUMfhT3eGGgDF1yla8GityW4saw/D6yjjHGB60/434TcQ== X-Received: by 10.28.151.81 with SMTP id z78mr21592124wmd.95.1491488291586; Thu, 06 Apr 2017 07:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.72.0.130] (h-1169.lbcfree.net. [185.99.119.68]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j185sm4644440wmg.23.2017.04.06.07.18.10 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Apr 2017 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Pete Heist Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_902CE09C-9D8A-442E-A0A6-682DD9ED81B5" Message-Id: <82EC6101-3328-451B-8445-C101C9E4A08F@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:18:09 +0200 References: To: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Cake] flow isolation for ISPs X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:18:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_902CE09C-9D8A-442E-A0A6-682DD9ED81B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 13:48:00 +0100 > From: Andy Furniss > To: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Cake] flow isolation for ISPs >=20 > Pete Heist wrote: >=20 >> Cake is not a requirement yet. I like it for several of its >> attributes (good performance with high numbers of flows, and also >> when =E2=80=9Cover-limiting=E2=80=9D, which I=E2=80=99ll explain more = in my next round of >> point-to-point WiFi results). >=20 > Would be nicer for your users though? >=20 > I mean in the sense that if the "outer" hash could be done on some = mark > then the inner hash on connection as normal then they would get more > than a fifo, which seems to be how current solutions are heading. >=20 > TBH, though I don't even get your set up - I mean is WISP like some > giant lan, or does anyone that asks get a real IP, do subscribers > normally have more than one access point? Just curious. Cake has some nice qualities, yes, so we=E2=80=99ll see. The network has been assembled over a number of years, by a number of = people (not by me personally), so it has a life of its own, but works = quite well, from a member=E2=80=99s perspective. :) I=E2=80=99m still = figuring out more about it myself, but it consists of a series of nodes, = each of which has at least a router, a WiFi AP for clients and an uplink = to the Internet connection either with point-to-point WiFi or some other = means (fiber, licensed radios, etc). If you want an idea: = http://mapa.czfree.net/#lat=3D50.76816800116274&lng=3D15.066890716552734&z= oom=3D13&autofilter=3D1&type=3Dsatellite&geolocate=3D98%7C114%7C111%7C117%= 7C109%7C111%7C118%7C115%7C107%7C97&node=3D6101&aponly=3D1&bbonly=3D1&actli= nk=3D1&actnode=3D1&tilt=3D0&heading=3D0& = In some cases, like mine, my CPE has a single IP address from the = node=E2=80=99s router. In others, where there are nodes on top of = apartment buildings for example, members connect with Ethernet straight = to the router on the roof of the building, and IP addresses come from = the DHCP server on that router, and they get multiple IPs. So it=E2=80=99s a mixture in this case, and that=E2=80=99s what makes = hashing only by IP address, or by IP address and flow, not ideal.= --Apple-Mail=_902CE09C-9D8A-442E-A0A6-682DD9ED81B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 13:48:00 +0100
From: Andy Furniss <adf.lists@gmail.com>
To: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: = [Cake] flow isolation for ISPs

Pete Heist = wrote:

Cake is not a requirement yet. I like it for several of = its
attributes (good performance with high numbers of = flows, and also
when =E2=80=9Cover-limiting=E2=80=9D, = which I=E2=80=99ll explain more in my next round of
point-to-point WiFi results).

Would be nicer for your users though?

I mean in the sense that if the "outer" hash could be done on = some mark
then the inner hash on connection as normal then = they would get more
than a fifo, which seems to be how = current solutions are heading.

TBH, though = I don't even get your set up - I mean is WISP like some
giant lan, or does anyone that asks get a real IP, do = subscribers
normally have more than one access point? Just = curious.

Cake has some nice qualities, yes, so we=E2=80=99ll = see.

The = network has been assembled over a number of years, by a number of people = (not by me personally), so it has a life of its own, but works quite = well, from a member=E2=80=99s perspective. :) I=E2=80=99m still figuring = out more about it myself, but it consists of a series of nodes, each of = which has at least a router, a WiFi AP for clients and an uplink to the = Internet connection either with point-to-point WiFi or some other means = (fiber, licensed radios, etc). If you want an idea:

http://mapa.czfree.net/#lat=3D50.76816800116274&lng=3D15.06= 6890716552734&zoom=3D13&autofilter=3D1&type=3Dsatellite&ge= olocate=3D98%7C114%7C111%7C117%7C109%7C111%7C118%7C115%7C107%7C97&node= =3D6101&aponly=3D1&bbonly=3D1&actlink=3D1&actnode=3D1&= tilt=3D0&heading=3D0&

In some cases, like mine, my CPE has a = single IP address from the node=E2=80=99s router. In others, where there = are nodes on top of apartment buildings for example, members connect = with Ethernet straight to the router on the roof of the building, and IP = addresses come from the DHCP server on that router, and they get = multiple IPs.

So= it=E2=80=99s a mixture in this case, and that=E2=80=99s what makes = hashing only by IP address, or by IP address and flow, not = ideal.
= --Apple-Mail=_902CE09C-9D8A-442E-A0A6-682DD9ED81B5--