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From: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@toke.dk>
To: "Holland, Jake" <jholland@akamai.com>,
	"David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com>,
	Luca Muscariello <muscariello@ieee.org>
Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Leonard Kleinrock <lk@cs.ucla.edu>,
	Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>,
	Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	"codel@lists.bufferbloat.net" <codel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 01:37:16 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87a6mvdpoz.fsf@toke.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BCD9F979-341F-4292-9D11-FAE91FC3967E@akamai.com>

"Holland, Jake via Bloat" <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> writes:

> Hi David,
>
> That’s an interesting point, and I think you’re right that packet
> arrival is poorly modeled as a Poisson process, because in practice
> packet transmissions are very rarely unrelated to other packet
> transmissions.
>
> But now you’ve got me wondering what the right approach is. Do you
> have any advice for how to improve this kind of modeling?

I actually tried my hand at finding something better for my master's
thesis and came across something called a Markov-Modulated Poisson
Process (MMPP/D/1 queue)[0]. It looked promising, but unfortunately I
failed to make it produce any useful predictions. Most likely this was
as much a result of my own failings as a queueing theorist as it was the
fault of the model (I was in way over my head by the time I got to that
model); so I figured I'd mention it here in case anyone more qualified
would have any opinion on it.

I did manage to get the Linux kernel to produce queueing behaviour that
resembled that of a standard M/M/1 queue (if you squint a bit); all you
have to do is to use a traffic generator that emits packets with the
distribution the model assumes... :)

The full thesis is still available[1] for the perusal of morbidly curious.

-Toke

[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/016653169390035S
[1] https://rucforsk.ruc.dk/ws/files/57613884/thesis-final.pdf

  reply	other threads:[~2021-07-09 23:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 109+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-01  0:12 [Cake] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board Dave Taht
2021-07-02  1:16 ` [Cake] [Cerowrt-devel] " David P. Reed
2021-07-02  4:04   ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-02 16:11     ` [Cake] [Starlink] " Dick Roy
2021-07-02 17:07   ` [Cake] " Dave Taht
2021-07-02 23:28     ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-06 13:46       ` [Cake] [Starlink] " Ben Greear
2021-07-06 20:43         ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-06 21:24           ` Ben Greear
2021-07-06 22:05             ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-07 13:34               ` Ben Greear
2021-07-07 19:19                 ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-08 19:38         ` David P. Reed
2021-07-08 22:51           ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-09  3:08           ` Leonard Kleinrock
2021-07-09 10:05             ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Luca Muscariello
2021-07-09 19:31               ` [Cake] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point David P. Reed
2021-07-09 20:24                 ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-09 22:57                 ` [Cake] [Bloat] " Holland, Jake
2021-07-09 23:37                   ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen [this message]
2021-07-09 23:01                 ` [Cake] " Leonard Kleinrock
2021-07-09 23:56                   ` [Cake] [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
2021-07-17 23:56                     ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Aaron Wood
2021-07-10 19:51                   ` [Cake] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-10 23:24                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 13:46                 ` [Cake] [Bloat] " Livingood, Jason
2021-07-12 17:40                   ` David P. Reed
2021-07-12 18:21                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 18:38                       ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 19:07                       ` Ben Greear
2021-07-12 20:04                         ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 20:32                           ` Ben Greear
2021-07-12 20:36                             ` David Lang
2021-07-12 20:50                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 20:42                             ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-13  7:14                             ` Amr Rizk
2021-07-13 17:07                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-13 17:49                                 ` David P. Reed
2021-07-14 18:37                                   ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-15  1:27                                     ` Holland, Jake
2021-07-16  0:34                                       ` Bob McMahon
     [not found]                                   ` <A5E35F34-A4D5-45B1-8E2D-E2F6DE988A1E@cs.ucla.edu>
2021-07-22 16:30                                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-13 17:22                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-17 23:29                             ` Aaron Wood
2021-07-18 19:06                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 21:54                           ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Jonathan Morton
2021-09-20  1:21                 ` [Cake] " Dave Taht
2021-09-20  4:00                   ` [Cake] [Cerowrt-devel] " Valdis Klētnieks
2021-09-20  4:09                     ` [Cake] [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] " David Lang
2021-09-20 21:30                       ` David P. Reed
2021-09-20 21:44                         ` David P. Reed
2021-09-20 12:57                     ` [Cake] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Steve Crocker
2021-09-20 16:36                       ` John Sager
2021-09-21  2:40                       ` Vint Cerf
2021-09-23 17:46                         ` Bob McMahon
2021-09-26 18:24                           ` David P. Reed
2021-09-26 19:40                             ` [Cake] [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2021-10-22  0:51                             ` [Cake] TCP_NOTSENT_LOWAT applied to e2e TCP msg latency Bob McMahon
2021-10-26  3:11                               ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Stuart Cheshire
2021-10-26  4:24                                 ` [Cake] [Bloat] " Eric Dumazet
2021-10-26 18:45                                   ` Christoph Paasch
2021-10-26 23:23                                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-26 23:38                                       ` Christoph Paasch
2021-10-27  1:12                                         ` Eric Dumazet
2021-10-27  3:45                                           ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-27  5:40                                             ` Eric Dumazet
2021-10-28 16:04                                             ` Christoph Paasch
2021-10-29 21:16                                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-26  5:32                                 ` [Cake] " Bob McMahon
2021-10-26 10:04                                   ` [Cake] [Starlink] " Bjørn Ivar Teigen
2021-10-26 17:23                                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-27 14:29                                       ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2021-08-02 22:59               ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board Bob McMahon
2021-08-02 23:16                 ` David Lang
2021-08-02 23:50                   ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  3:06                     ` David Lang
2021-08-02 23:55                   ` Ben Greear
2021-08-03  0:01                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  3:12                       ` David Lang
2021-08-03  3:23                         ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  4:30                           ` David Lang
2021-08-03  4:38                             ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  4:44                               ` David Lang
2021-08-03 16:01                                 ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  4:35                             ` [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-08-08  5:04                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  5:04                           ` Dick Roy
2021-08-08  5:07                             ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-10 14:10                           ` Rodney W. Grimes
2021-08-10 16:13                             ` Dick Roy
2021-08-10 17:06                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-10 17:56                                 ` Dick Roy
2021-08-10 18:11                                 ` Dick Roy
2021-08-10 19:21                                   ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-10 20:16                                     ` [Cake] Anhyone have a spare couple a hundred million ... Elon may need to start a go-fund-me page! Dick Roy
2021-08-10 20:33                                       ` [Cake] [Starlink] " Jeremy Austin
2021-08-10 20:44                                         ` David Lang
2021-08-10 22:54                                           ` Bob McMahon
2021-09-02 17:36                                   ` [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board David P. Reed
2021-09-03 14:35                                     ` [Cake] [Bloat] " Matt Mathis
2021-09-03 18:33                                       ` David P. Reed
2021-08-03  0:37                   ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Leonard Kleinrock
2021-08-03  1:24                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  5:07                       ` [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-08-08  5:15                         ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-08 18:36                           ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Aaron Wood
2021-08-08 18:48                             ` [Cake] [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
2021-08-08 19:58                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  4:20                     ` [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy

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