From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-f53.google.com (mail-ed1-f53.google.com [209.85.208.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 422983BA8E for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:30:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ed1-f53.google.com with SMTP id f23so11296475edb.3 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:30:33 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jsik9+BdeHSxcsUKEstlJobAb64qUn0OoKOLwrfsD+g=; b=Ys5nabYSS30gFOp2JN2FKb2ukYykuE0Kiq+HqWzTsXHhzwn3n8uZb4q/v7p34AgZil Mj/8gWNtKvCt0ujxa+nARQ/mF/pd9kJZOsAUtU2xeL1XSqwZmAk6U6+P0kS7ychEjBJy 43Ng87ILLN735Qrw8hzCqOASF3vFnNVsLWjr41nngbB32dDLRZXK+CWtImngoaNpRKFh bJurjnU/w/4096xylgNKKixoycZp8ZNRqewOMP9ulZvaC5LF7+Z7Jvpx4GviJe1X3k2Q H95o4FQ6l5HFztezK3gMOU4iBrTkmiJqrRXa1jCeOMDXZIsaAqfOcxKimHcYSvWYrL9T RiFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukezeMdbI6nDXkp7VRmYg9AsifqDpzfpRMoGtYQRDeBekux2pflW UGyLu0je5Hq3/c7WZ01FK8EcZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5U1yIDMQay+KiPFvFLqJGcNo767w7Vw/jNXtfUWnjdyVI626J6wN2/7knJ0k1JUNHtOjDMIg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2496:: with SMTP id e22-v6mr14839942ejb.84.1547821832298; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tohojo-x1-rh.localdomain (borgediget.toke.dk. [85.204.121.218]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r51sm7242750eda.64.2019.01.18.06.30.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by tohojo-x1-rh.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2FCC01833C1; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:30:29 +0100 (CET) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: Georgios Amanakis , Cake List In-Reply-To: <0DF65079-C5D1-4853-A310-9FABE978105A@gmx.de> References: <20190116033430.8446-1-gamanakis@gmail.com> <87pnsumg8s.fsf@toke.dk> <87pnsu3xac.fsf@toke.dk> <0DF65079-C5D1-4853-A310-9FABE978105A@gmx.de> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:30:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87muny3unu.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] dual-src/dsthost unfairness, only with bi-directional traffic X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:30:33 -0000 Sebastian Moeller writes: > Hi Toke, > >> On Jan 18, 2019, at 14:33, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: >>=20 >> Georgios Amanakis writes: >>=20 >>> Yes, exactly. Would be interesting to hear what Jonathan, Toke and >>> others think. I want to see if fairness is preserved in this case with >>> sparse flows only. Could flent do this? >>=20 >> Well, sparse flows are (by definition) not building a queue, so it >> doesn't really make sense to talk about fairness for them. How would you >> measure that? >>=20 >> This is also the reason I agree that they shouldn't be counted for host >> fairness calculation purposes, BTW... > > That leads to a question (revealing my lack of detailed knowledge) if > there is a sufficient number of new flows (that should qualify as > new/sparse) that servicing all of them takes longer than each queue > accumulating new packets, at what point in time are these flows > considered "unworthy" of sparse flow boosting? Or differetly how i > cake going to deal with a UDP flood where the 5 tuple hash is > different for all packets (say by spoofing ports or randomly picking > dst addresses)? Well, what is considered a sparse flow is a function of both the flow rate itself, *as well as* the link rate, number of competing flows, etc. So a flow can be sparse on one link, but turn into a bulk flow on another because that link has less capacity. I explore this in some detail here: https://doi.org/10.1109/LCOMM.2018.2871457 -Toke