From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A2013B29E for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id p11-v6so3232034wmc.4 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heistp.net; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=8WXOB1GSfDtrMzK6wFI0HZmJu0SjwkxmLIQB93tkBi0=; b=a/hm5TPZqXn8DKq2YIyXydL+5wMGvWvpaYGkE08jVXlJCIwqpSDw2tAQ8CyDp+dexD EKUXCgA/KQARx5xvlmLmxV5QJqushTe9Ip5mQ0/eEKt9q/FtexmjsPQc5g5xQrSP2sZr nHUQm4s+zNIqe3LE4I3uf2xNHgzCm43qeo43Q/HUUuICs7csCuPVoQ/+c0sF2s8kdcIf aVxtFSwhvJb6IDWye14A5+6ckoJM5rZG467uJLDNnM6xqOoaz+JX9dKkR8flRbDaHP2s ezF37dZyKsvLV3rCDTR6gRBb7FgmA8UFJIPaEMFOdWGPC9m08Qfb6lgMvJ1pHtTuQzUi 6CLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=8WXOB1GSfDtrMzK6wFI0HZmJu0SjwkxmLIQB93tkBi0=; b=shZFDaSzJIPmboMkNQJRkgCszlwg1RJzrVPkmxxU2Acbrd+FDYawfAYA2SKVuD8EGS nfLBb4lvV/kibgtdK9VEFmlrmg3DiwAMIUtHm6nllGG65UFAIOaHq3zjp6qTiYTflWT9 q3b6AoZefLRovQNojv8B9vNgQZD+jPi+Nx1VvggNzBdGaWzkqNNiTrFeUmaMd3QUQZbN OcOTwhy2sGkRUlVqtgFHQFMQ5GED3Z3OcXRkQ4pYNQhsKGzEa08yQ8X/mGzUfA5vhixl CWbnU3J8lbqRyvtdoOL3NI8HuxvXPiXWh9V1Zmg0u3ST3gpRtIBEozAAGyHRMyDhofaa hwJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2SidHl8WJ7EyJ6/qqRJPcwYNTZ4mC8GxyFLPVfdw+U15TFl4d1 QuGWR+xKbrRO76zMNMe669UHvQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLxuu5UlupJfVrz3+ymfKLhoE512DsPibR0ZGgSnLNTIu2whA7oYZOsxpjhkixEXUbb4L1mgA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5b0d:: with SMTP id p13-v6mr13351719wmb.53.1529447700483; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.72.0.65] (h-1169.lbcfree.net. [185.193.85.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y18-v6sm717016wrl.53.2018.06.19.15.34.59 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Pete Heist In-Reply-To: <30FC3100-FD44-425F-BA42-ED432F816201@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 00:34:58 +0200 Cc: Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <890C5020-6892-4022-855E-BFD7774E8971@heistp.net> References: <87in6ft81g.fsf@toke.dk> <0FF888EC-4FF0-4AAE-B2B8-79A10B0B5A9E@gmail.com> <877emvt2ij.fsf@toke.dk> <6D5348AC-921E-49D3-B6D0-9CC30874B80D@heistp.net> <1CC8F6F6-94E1-4987-928E-29BDE01787BC@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <280044CA-F23B-4FF5-83DE-ECCAC05AAA3B@heistp.net> <30FC3100-FD44-425F-BA42-ED432F816201@gmail.com> To: Jonathan Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Cake] the Cake stalemate X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:35:01 -0000 > On Jun 19, 2018, at 10:35 PM, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >=20 >> On 19 Jun, 2018, at 11:14 pm, Pete Heist wrote: >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t think we can do much better than =E2=80=9Cit makes = your Internet faster=E2=80=9D, which is what most people want >=20 > s/faster/reliable/ >=20 > It would be really nice to be able to say "go out and buy this box, = plug it in and run through the setup wizard" instead of "go through the = frankly scary process of reflashing your router with OpenWRT". In that = case we might really get some traction. There could be a transparent bridge available with Cake installed that = just has a web interface for a few basic settings, but it would only = help people with WiFi APs or switches / networks separate from their = router. Probably not most people. My secret hope is we=E2=80=99re heading into an era when people will = want to own their data once again and move it out of the cloud and back = into their residences. Small, Linux-based home devices will be so cheap, = powerful and reliable that they=E2=80=99ll route, store, serve, control, = be an AP, plus allow the installation of unprivileged containers or apps = with various distributed functionalities. Just like some join = cooperative ISPs, people will join a cooperative to pay for the = engineering, development and support of these devices, because they=E2=80=99= ll realize that it=E2=80=99s the right thing to do instead of selling = themselves for =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D services that perpetuate = monopolies. Seems like a long way about it, but surely then we can fund = and install Cake on these devices. :) If it wouldn=E2=80=99t be = everyone, maybe it would be for some? for enough? pipe dream?=