From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lb0-x22f.google.com (mail-lb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22f]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DAE43C9F3 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2016 06:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lb0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id oh2so345884430lbb.3 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2016 03:39:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IpwqywBwsLkQ2Is7wUAzXhkCkzyoB0fjAWQCWlVOrUI=; b=h7/VHBv4JW88QjQJaRpvdGB4I5n9W8JNsTzMikWI1kUYw8ReSzQKsoYWnmdabo+tn4 oxb5dckTZQKL3Rg7DbvrHDpwbt8ehtSssuCIygk6oZau888FzwoxRazOqHcPxkqFyWSk 8EHGHacGbDfMUsVoeeYGACltusGr2NEM6uKL8U+uWvMW9fW6pWSy0gf5WDWssc9RJ5Jq qJ9MSKMo3VfLk/ad+nV5H7RwunVRm0HspvtzeEet6/B5kw0BRQ6SH8+VE7C2VFTObIAx 0q5V1g5fCRXcBh45FRajZrALfCCYHcx1SbveOIlKqfFFenChn2hyXWVXm2jehb0Zzxfc 9H/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=IpwqywBwsLkQ2Is7wUAzXhkCkzyoB0fjAWQCWlVOrUI=; b=Bau1Vlw6ZoJ7ptAn2FCDu3p5ry2Hek6e6n6rziIE8yq7M1Rq7nVvvDtvwPjW/RAip4 UQUsdJ6N+0TQ9LTuhWPvJt6P/7avStmelLea88UMTwyE4FwOW+hJOOlnucSriwca5uv7 LUUbfB+0+BxvjMfUmwVlytzQuNTy2RZQp+v5deOs5ju6yRsZU/zYPHKPaDujXEGST/te ZlsznpY+oWe5oZZ7WxACJHCVAk2Imaa8q4V96uJcx4dQgjpREObtSbt4lDAmYEJhHIZs xPeL2CyuHKgmyQ4rlNPxnEHwarn14jiCMzbahuXStUK2QwWmzNBXgRuT7P1wLaDjViwM xhkA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnASlbPhLJCAkDP2+nBOP7QkW5P6GH/for6neIo2rwb6/V/l9WGLw1MXTJu4+iLFBAVrhZxeS4kDVGqPzPjfXDjSxzCYw== X-Received: by 10.112.159.233 with SMTP id xf9mr8040730lbb.21.1453117164879; Mon, 18 Jan 2016 03:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.238.201] (37-33-99-74.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.99.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 87sm3169442lfr.44.2016.01.18.03.39.23 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Jan 2016 03:39:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:39:22 +0200 Cc: moeller0 , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <909E3374-8806-455D-8D8C-7F2C85A91297@gmail.com> References: <5693E8FA.4000803@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <56941191.1010601@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <452D0F47-931B-4412-AC59-C308388AA1E4@gmail.com> <02A10F37-145C-4BF9-B428-BC1BDF700135@gmx.de> <079A86FB-D2A6-4787-BC42-D2E200AD3290@gmx.de> <72B1E8E5-F42D-4B13-A404-5DE82F8658F9@gmail.com> To: Alan Jenkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Subject: Re: [Cake] triple flow isolation X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:39:26 -0000 >> Hence I think it=E2=80=99s reasonable to simply switch on triple = isolation by >> default, in the near future. It does approximately the right thing, = without >> further configuration, in the great majority of practical cases (that = I can >> think of), and to a greater extent than the existing =E2=80=9Cflows=E2=80= =9D mode does. >=20 > A question from complete ignorance of this feature: >=20 > Do you prioritize by app ("traffic class") before imposing host > fairness, or vice versa? It=E2=80=99s a fair question. There are arguments for doing it either = way. > We have these rules that voice, or video, can get special treatment in > order to survive (but aren't allowed to monopolize the connection). > If two local hosts simply cut the connection in half, we kind of lose > that prioritization. >=20 > E.g. when I was sharing with 4 other students - I want my house-mates > bittorrenting to stay firmly in the scavenger class when I want to use > the internet :). (And vice-versa; I want to be able to leave my > bittorrent on and not get shouted at because netflix cuts out and > downgrades to standard definition). You=E2=80=99ll be pleased to hear that Cake does it the way you want. = Diffserv priority queuing takes precedence over everything else bar the = shaper itself. Flow and host isolation occur within each priority tin, = and AQM occurs within each flow queue. It is entirely possible to do it the other way around. For a = wifi-specific qdisc, we might well do, in order to enforce airtime = fairness between stations and then permit each station to prioritise = packets within their own traffic. This makes very different assumptions = than are valid for a last-mile link. - Jonathan Morton