From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr0-x241.google.com (mail-wr0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02BA13B2A3 for ; Mon, 1 May 2017 09:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x241.google.com with SMTP id w50so13739270wrc.0 for ; Mon, 01 May 2017 06:03:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6CXNrVAYsR1867ZHuriSl0Py6aTOe/7EolwQGON4uzM=; b=Yr+OxCfQqg9VgbWpoRA4lmVfJVZnhWhASspJlpA0iHn/MxCRbdDxguHKrWZrP8xzQX +J5nxV4QrIm50DqT/cyrN9fS92nioSmreZ61ynX2uJp4ErTUdIDsReezC55l6049xhAD RfKLd9kTvoGuSweBnrlo5vsuJbRjLKa0TDEMU76o2sVHbx10rpUhcyN7mNBlmY5lTU+R oww2lqO0raD4I0KqY0MQ9A6Q+kwQyLLAB3LfFvNf+DjmJnO6HaqIeohvmmo2Y42hOhi3 9a4sgXYyp55RTj4+vnD7/nQbTNiNPKGv6Oak4YgoIMggCWuXR9xydfaDF6aNxVhjxo9B RBEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6CXNrVAYsR1867ZHuriSl0Py6aTOe/7EolwQGON4uzM=; b=pA1ydp7K67CUIxe9sXNXxZK8hmlnt+R/LyENte+l+vcQp8LKDDx+TJldmLf7M8ddfz IJqPz/tP5/aSfEC/uUKlo9pj2QwNb97BqAsJEc/sYsHu/PZNckg/Y/GaS6Epm2n/JSpK XYE0Z/n3tsJt4jBN9Ed5sJ0CNdwMPc6ytZaokuko4TwF+SLWJLc8tcfaEGq2tbAO4yxk aPVa7lhOx53vfDrw5vXz4KBguHec+Z6+eFEjFKE3so568s6OBgBhBDgS6uAOFQKvIqrY MRnB5EY1Z4XEgEu784ms3lrnqFZ27gdloVtlOPcC9lIM5KVjDL+1iKZjuj696KvPIJOP OhTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6BgUNsI9PcMoYK6IbxBhNzy9wEZnuoxDaPqjlXeeZLB0NShQWd ecbg9x93mgSl4A== X-Received: by 10.223.173.74 with SMTP id p68mr15420647wrc.163.1493643787055; Mon, 01 May 2017 06:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (185.182.7.51.dyn.plus.net. [51.7.182.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v7sm8366835wme.5.2017.05.01.06.03.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 May 2017 06:03:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Jonathan Morton Cc: Dendari Marini , Benjamin Cronce , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <0BA3EE91-C5BC-4155-9D5D-D15D34490A1A@gmx.de> <00DDAA0B-7D99-489B-BA2D-1F20289409B3@gmx.de> <2FFBF256-2932-4FC7-AD1F-0D7CEE111809@gmx.de> <3fbfd0ee-7b41-0f83-8b44-ce7eed6a0562@gmail.com> <09DB0D8E-F63C-4126-8608-9EACDE99D2F1@gmail.com> <8d2720cb-fd26-0ed8-5e59-c9a062384966@gmail.com> From: Andy Furniss Message-ID: <963649d6-bc25-5633-3361-c0355e1c40a0@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 14:03:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/54.0 SeaMonkey/2.51a2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Cake] Getting Cake to work better with Steam and similar applications X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2017 13:03:08 -0000 Jonathan Morton wrote: > >> On 1 May, 2017, at 14:32, Andy Furniss >> wrote: >> >> Well it seems distance is important for BBR. It seems to have a >> design whereby your rtt to the server determines how badly it will >> bork your latency. Unlike cubic it doesn't take loss/ecn as a hint >> to get out of its exponential phase, which is IMHO not a friendly >> thing to do, I mean didn't they think people have to share >> connections :-( >> >> Playing with a sim, something like dash that grabs a meg waits >> then gets another with a new connection needs crazy amount of back >> off to avoid borking latency every chunk. The amount of disruption >> getting worse the higher the RTT of the TCP. > > Just to be sure - are you running sch_fq on the egress interface(s) > of the BBR sender? If not, *you are not running BBR*. BBR needs > the pacing functionality of sch_fq to work correctly. > No, I was trying to pretend that the flow was not local (though looking I see sch_fq can handle routed). Reading random high level descriptions of BBR I didn't see it mentioned. I did read that bbr tries to probe 2x rtt, which is what I see in a pure buffer. Does google/valve/every bbr user run it? I mean Dendari is clearly having issues with valve. I can't really test latency properly with steam on my real wan as my ISP does QOS. I'll try to cook up another sim, but will probably run out of interfaces.