From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C88F53B2A4; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:19:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945249D7; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:19:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lochnair.net; h= subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type; s=fm2; bh=hGaJW2WQ2tS9hcputPtVSpZxb1H g8+qsfUfRtXMGd4M=; b=GUX1ChWYdTnaGwxyPJRMSdNg/ni2B3wOl2d12JdVz5j w34KUmlXD35PKtlyOY3GsBL89Fb6J5YBiwOzH7slclAmov05SB8dqCK3gD/dbOhf iC5F1ItUE2pYxhaKBDu+d8gQ80nV5P4OjmsKXxNltp5DfV1WQTPZU5Vyct66zjGP Msb3JaQP1BdwxLocG93V/QkMdBb90YP0zI9TY3yWI/tXUHuEjSNrrRdSeLmR5NSC igBg0laPDJ8fkDRo3/ittG8nB0rQ9YdYeyPORcfZAvqFiVarPDtmyMtTFEl4IC0L pesKgO+uEjGWXmLwmhxBxeKn2qR2s3tSsRPOourJ/JA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=hGaJW2 WQ2tS9hcputPtVSpZxb1Hg8+qsfUfRtXMGd4M=; b=Ycu/d0KsDiZLhKSe6NnAu1 bK1HZobB1CJoaC+TPzRAcRN0rarNzr5zPppi/OvbOCAejDBpANEjJre57q2/bJ16 O/W3pfD+62wnUNBPT/WK1Keb6LyEXLtvZClVFu7GiLCoxNyHcyoOEHxT+sIIHc7M Pn1mQtBNSSE3pnNly+DrQzwhkk+w1u4v7d6iLhKpoyKq2QN1ysQyH/9zMxyicjYh 5cB2Eb5v59+5cyERKd5MXLFgXMILPMPPrHE6BwZdIlmMTz7WsPcjENPrdjv1ysM1 7tYvDFAkGQss/1/OhQSBHZSae3ZFw+vsY34GVYi5noZjfWYaEWgxBQ/0SK6V4VPw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrledtgddvudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgesrgdtreertdefheenucfhrhhomheppfhilhhsucet nhgurhgvrghsucfuvhgvvgcuoehmvgeslhhotghhnhgrihhrrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeeigeeiffegheegteejgfdtieevkedvuefhtdefhfdvvdfhieegueevffek jefgjeenucfkphepjeejrddukedrudegkedruddtgeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmvgeslhhotghhnhgrihhrrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [10.1.100.229] (77.18.148.104.tmi.telenormobil.no [77.18.148.104]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D7B2424005A; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:19:37 -0500 (EST) To: Taraldsen Erik , Dave Taht , bloat , Make-Wifi-fast , =?UTF-8?Q?Toke_H=c3=b8iland-J=c3=b8rgensen_via_Cake?= References: <874ki24ref.wl-jch@irif.fr> <1e41ddf7-cd08-4fec-b31a-3021f8111dc6@www.fastmail.com> <2f30c201fce345658df9f2a5090745cf@telenor.no> <480413c4-e9a1-4b78-8ef6-3d8658836874@www.fastmail.com> From: Nils Andreas Svee Message-ID: <9b17aa66-d02d-e262-88a3-2f36c1755667@lochnair.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 01:19:34 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------99EB4AA6D1FAA09BF8BDF909" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and jitter at 8pm CET Tuesday 23 X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 00:19:41 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------99EB4AA6D1FAA09BF8BDF909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2/25/21 9:18 AM, Taraldsen Erik wrote: > This is getting rather rather Telenor internal and probably is not > true for other ISP's, but here we go.  Mobile Broad Band (MBB) is > handled by Telenor's Mobile division. Fixed Wireless Access (FWA) is > handled by Telenors Fixed division (the same group who does DSL, > DOCSIS and GPON).  To further complicate matters, Telenor Group > (holding company for Telenor Fixed and Telenor Mobile) deiced to > launch FWA before the new value chain was ready.  So we have two > versions of FWA - internally called FWA1 and FWA2.  FWA1 (which you > have Nils) is not fully compliant with the regulatory definition of a > fixed access and has very limited management support (technical > monitoring, firmware upgrades etc).  I'm working on the FWA2 value > chain and devices. > I'll admit it doesn't surprise me that something like that was going on, after we got the B818 I can't recall seeing a single new FW revision. > > I assume you are doing the tests on Ethernet, not wifi?  I know the > B818 has some wifi issues as well.  To isolate the LTE access I mean. > I am indeed running them on Ethernet. I don't actually use the B818 for anything else than as a LTE modem, so I wouldn't know, if I could get the thing to bridge I would. Or replace it with something else entirely that I can control, but that doesn't seem to be an option on FWA. That said the Zyxel looks like a better option since I assume it acts like a bridge by default. > > Yes interesting to see the signal stats from the device, but not > needed.  More for my curiosity to compare with the Zyxel devices. > I dumped the raw signal stats the web interface grabs in an XML file together with the Flent tests. Also did some upload only tests tonight at different speeds (no VPN in play this time). > > So with subscription limited to 30Mbit and probably radio head room up > to ~70Mbit downstream and 10Mbit upstream.  My guess is that you will > see more latency in the upstream direction.  I believe the B818 has > the very typical "1000 packets fifo, never drop" implementation. > Most likely yes. That's been my observation as well, that it generally acts up the worst when somethings using the upstream. Not entirely sure what I can do about that, seeing as I had to shape at 5Mbit to get rid of the worst spikes (but not all). For all I know there might be something to gain by adjusting the antenna slightly, it's pointed in the general direction of the cell tower, but we didn't fine tune it (I seem to recall it was a cold winter evening). On that point, I would've liked to collect signal stats over time, but the B818 seems to insist on chucking me out after being idle for a few minutes, better known as scraping the stats with cURL - Nils. > > -Erik > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Fra:* Cake på vegne av Nils > Andreas Svee > *Sendt:* torsdag 25. februar 2021 00.27 > *Til:* Taraldsen Erik; Dave Taht; bloat; cerowrt-devel; > Make-Wifi-fast; Toke Høiland-Jørgensen via Cake > *Emne:* Re: [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and > jitter at 8pm CET Tuesday 23 > Ah, yeah it's fixed wireless I meant. Didn't really know how to say it > right in English. > > We've got the Huawei B818-260 with an EMCOM XPOL-2 4G/5G on the wall. > > Yes, we've got a 30 Mbit/sec subscription. In practice we usually see > ~30 Mbit downstream and 10-15 upstream, and I believe when we first > got the B818 and antenna hooked up I measured ~70 Mbit downstream with > a subscription that didn't have any rate limitations, so I assumed we > should have a good amount of leeway if something affected the signal. > > Sure, I can run some more tests tomorrow. Could also grab some signal > stats from the B818 if those are of interest. > > By the way, I forgot to mention it when I posted yesterdays tests, but > those were conducted over a WireGuard tunnel with CAKE for the > downstream running on the other side. Doing that was the only way to > get the ADSL subscription we had to behave decently, it simply > couldn't handle things like Steam downloads with CAKE on a IFB device > in ingress mode, and shaping downstream this way kinda stuck. > > Best Regards > Nils > --------------99EB4AA6D1FAA09BF8BDF909 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On 2/25/21 9:18 AM, Taraldsen Erik wrote:

This is getting rather rather Telenor internal and probably is not true for other ISP's, but here we go.  Mobile Broad Band (MBB) is handled by Telenor's Mobile division. Fixed Wireless Access (FWA) is handled by Telenors Fixed division (the same group who does DSL, DOCSIS and GPON).  To further complicate matters, Telenor Group (holding company for Telenor Fixed and Telenor Mobile) deiced to launch FWA before the new value chain was ready.  So we have two versions of FWA - internally called FWA1 and FWA2.  FWA1 (which you have Nils) is not fully compliant with the regulatory definition of a fixed access and has very limited management support (technical monitoring, firmware upgrades etc).  I'm working on the FWA2 value chain and devices.

I'll admit it doesn't surprise me that something like that was going on, after we got the B818 I can't recall seeing a single new FW revision.

I assume you are doing the tests on Ethernet, not wifi?  I know the B818 has some wifi issues as well.  To isolate the LTE access I mean. 

I am indeed running them on Ethernet. I don't actually use the B818 for anything else than as a LTE modem, so I wouldn't know, if I could get the thing to bridge I would. Or replace it with something else entirely that I can control, but that doesn't seem to be an option on FWA. That said the Zyxel looks like a better option since I assume it acts like a bridge by default.

Yes interesting to see the signal stats from the device, but not needed.  More for my curiosity to compare with the Zyxel devices.

I dumped the raw signal stats the web interface grabs in an XML file together with the Flent tests. Also did some upload only tests tonight at different speeds (no VPN in play this time).

So with subscription limited to 30Mbit and probably radio head room up to ~70Mbit downstream and 10Mbit upstream.  My guess is that you will see more latency in the upstream direction.  I believe the B818 has the very typical "1000 packets fifo, never drop" implementation.

Most likely yes. That's been my observation as well, that it generally acts up the worst when somethings using the upstream. Not entirely sure what I can do about that, seeing as I had to shape at 5Mbit to get rid of the worst spikes (but not all).


For all I know there might be something to gain by adjusting the antenna slightly, it's pointed in the general direction of the cell tower, but we didn't fine tune it (I seem to recall it was a cold winter evening).


On that point, I would've liked to collect signal stats over time, but the B818 seems to insist on chucking me out after being idle for a few minutes, better known as scraping the stats with cURL


- Nils.


-Erik







Fra: Cake <cake-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> på vegne av Nils Andreas Svee <me@lochnair.net>
Sendt: torsdag 25. februar 2021 00.27
Til: Taraldsen Erik; Dave Taht; bloat; cerowrt-devel; Make-Wifi-fast; Toke Høiland-Jørgensen via Cake
Emne: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and jitter at 8pm CET Tuesday 23
 
Ah, yeah it's fixed wireless I meant. Didn't really know how to say it right in English.

We've got the Huawei B818-260 with an EMCOM XPOL-2 4G/5G on the wall.

Yes, we've got a 30 Mbit/sec subscription. In practice we usually see ~30 Mbit downstream and 10-15 upstream, and I believe when we first got the B818 and antenna hooked up I measured ~70 Mbit downstream with a subscription that didn't have any rate limitations, so I assumed we should have a good amount of leeway if something affected the signal.

Sure, I can run some more tests tomorrow. Could also grab some signal stats from the B818 if those are of interest.

By the way, I forgot to mention it when I posted yesterdays tests, but those were conducted over a WireGuard tunnel with CAKE for the downstream running on the other side. Doing that was the only way to get the ADSL subscription we had to behave decently, it simply couldn't handle things like Steam downloads with CAKE on a IFB device in ingress mode, and shaping downstream this way kinda stuck.

Best Regards
Nils

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