From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lb0-x22d.google.com (mail-lb0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22d]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C54C93B2A2 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:05:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lb0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id cl12so89070755lbc.1 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:05:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=eXWk1YRz43zrVCZx0cyU5za3zRTCtuLqnEMwuroxJSw=; b=aaKAEyQpVmSOXG/h+zQp/NMF+dD617AkGb1x0iLnLYs6svn8urk4otohJcD/t4EFOY UUT3mrZm33dJ0GLDunY4msHkgo1qoo2mMH5NqqFu3gUhjdxSlfe79411+SQdA0bsIUW0 n8VI4Urk3g906+rPo4TPk3BZCEx2glBtzHSFdqe2/sxcYqf6wMTLTZOyMsqbNBs5Jy19 WlnH6oSP93iPicCqDWF6azbF9DJJ1OeF3BNtyYPy02jbY9+MuEJ3LNfVSMIyZ+FLlAE2 wDeSh6ZTyq8A/asnR49dcLy/RZl0F0Njm/7fYqiL1Xp+Fqetzj8kJcizZWkusfW2k9C2 kNTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=eXWk1YRz43zrVCZx0cyU5za3zRTCtuLqnEMwuroxJSw=; b=lRl+3IeHdtSCk8hhcKGXoTlb0IuFmDt4EmoNjwbx+1eHMYeHCfm4umNUtueAHyU7av TivZzWqQRcHCxv3wNmoHwyqYsaKK6PW9G7pVmn2S3Y29ekOl7VUKDqHg6hkR2CW8/HU4 0fK/pCzsiR/ZwusjlR8rKq5s1th+i3PvVlTWk2mVlU/+7CcdYo6tNgUaB4zuG091k3S7 VW4U0voJ8ae8Gl0FuyAdw3MCNdzYEsaOEVYl1CDag95O4ht4b1h8mZD35cUvK/qbfEkG W2IDeZOKtFCIO6wEE+Fg5tLUClaKjUHiN/vIR6WwNxcdN22v0LZmd4nxwTvH3PfTCOQp opwg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlEf/16Owx87TWUp2LqtzNP5KjPnlWl9FeKGkFpR59fydHbNtqwNBGFSYSokMPSj01iq4gQJ0vcjmYzjxLQ8MISsiRH7w== X-Received: by 10.112.143.163 with SMTP id sf3mr1943726lbb.117.1452816320501; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.238.201] (37-33-99-74.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.99.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m21sm1059258lfm.48.2016.01.14.16.05.19 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:05:19 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <02A10F37-145C-4BF9-B428-BC1BDF700135@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 02:05:15 +0200 Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5693E8FA.4000803@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <56941191.1010601@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <452D0F47-931B-4412-AC59-C308388AA1E4@gmail.com> <02A10F37-145C-4BF9-B428-BC1BDF700135@gmx.de> To: moeller0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Subject: Re: [Cake] triple flow isolation X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:05:23 -0000 > On 14 Jan, 2016, at 20:53, moeller0 wrote: >=20 > So I have not grokked the triple algorithm fully (aka not at all), but = I already know that what user=E2=80=99s are looking for is fairness by = internal host IPs. Now, since as I explained before ingress and egress = really are too flexible to use as direction pointers, I assume we are = looking for some configuration parameter that contains a direction; so = as long as =E2=80=9Ctriple=E2=80=9D allows to request fairness by source = IP or by destination IP (since these might change depending on the = interface cake is running on) all will be fine. I just do not see how a = simple unidirectional parameter like =E2=80=9Ctriple-iso=E2=80=9D will = allow to take the fact into account that ingress and egress are only = relative to the sqm interface and do not necessarily align with the = internal/WAN ingress and egress=E2=80=A6 But as I said before I do not = claim I understand what triple-iso intends to accomplish in detail. The short version is that, in theory at least, I=E2=80=99ve found a way = to ensure fairness without needing to know which side of the interface = is which. By accounting for *both* source and destination host fairness = at the same time, and not placing one above the other in importance, it = should all work out in the end. The method by which I do so is probably = interesting enough to write a paper about, once I=E2=80=99ve got it = working in practice. At this point, I strongly suspect I=E2=80=99ve made an implementation = blunder, since even single-stepping through the theoretical = algorithm=E2=80=99s behaviour, packet by packet, produces approximately = the desired results - which are however not reproduced in actual = measurements on my LAN. Time to add more stats to the multitude already = present! If you want to be explicit about directionality, that=E2=80=99s what the = two new =E2=80=9Cdual=E2=80=9D modes are for. The =E2=80=9Ctriple = isolation=E2=80=9D algorithm is still used, but the undesired attribute = is ignored. The =E2=80=9Ctriple=E2=80=9D mode combines their effects. - Jonathan Morton