From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA1403CB35 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 03:06:54 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1637654813; bh=8zQmp04dqf+oZzoe2x+Qe62Tay+AzPAm07lZm5n2Lew=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=k+Xi/GmC9WiverEBW78z98vhND7C5Jw1XyoJ+kRugvhxwqFxTrp9IFK5/HQmMeyR6 qyPxlPucgLDrD32E3Mx2V8TLn4ThPRWEkl/qU+Po/Y2QPci0U3s+piiKNDo9gjvjMP +T4bBU8OqwDdYP53DV7WvPZ0gSXSE3ZqnDYcbwVg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([80.187.108.241]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MJmKh-1n5BMD2xYn-00K75G; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:06:52 +0100 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:06:53 +0100 From: Sebastian Moeller To: Dave Taht CC: Cake List User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <67BC6CC2-F088-4C0D-8433-A09F4AC452FE@gmx.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:hGWElin5PLZRBu3t8M7KrytdpfRN0Bzq76vTbhCBTFs8Ym+mHUI MchkM+X9QRqIpluvwgBLKFSeo48XL/20OyfTZ8T/lNC8p88QXQq3+NKpP6lIOG/w9wOq+C4 agV0GI6kvBVWXHPTiQBVNiMRfVjocl4UWEqWJDWrDNkgIoH+B18wEL6Hg/N/FzCZT36WHrn 5cjDymvVPjgLcbqqRauQg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:1YwNv0v834c=:J60B+yufWy44jHXpPFTcBF Eq8OdnXAqw8br5vG/P8l1QAMvfry92wsuZmeXranO1rb6nE6R58tSN8zteX0lVldpMN2rZ/m5 30ADlRUI1G6pAm2Y80qVedyPevrPgN30Jd8mdiNs7yng37NHrnp/P/8oMiQ/g2AaX28wVFr45 VDWtDSXGrNnP3c8nat34kVRsbl8GAFFSo1QAHzH3h7JCM4yNlLGRCmU1vPwQoc6GPMIzFl95k UQ+c7S6xdH5zEqAjKweiTTWTXnohJVYVWrevD1K9nGloRF5GsxNR2LhJk2fWGpOcuvc1F02W2 Xf7w8A1r8XOWVXw+TZkurIROG5ffQGwVYIBtFCrAiZqNXr6agDihWogyScO91XFqX65pFui9n QksQHSAqv0/zHoHrAWxHeA7ESoN0ytnLQwhlVHtT/3ChWoOZ3xioDD1AP9h15xaCumV7xNOdP Qd+fcacDMv7nPiZUwB0H8oa4xzRcDwA/uVn9PzmVd/4W+w8LJo/hnUXQCro7nL464cNMhwzlK 1T9eZWneBj2lW/L3tPPwayfwDhXQc65DJDQu9SIgwF4NpcQWinmgH2K7MQa5u7PSjyYMJmxTs Ic+xv5fH0UPXDs8kx1CWwqDr43F0jYHJ3oNPbbWNWHJEkQ3p2xE6Nmaej7XwXKwRa6alMhRgQ DjVr6XPX3SOahlyddEqE17zgnh+JNSN8RuHN+UTNKGlbtM+5LBBu8cY4rI7ZKs/KjXUu3KoHv gBrwROBTxToc5cp4ptYv4hrtkHJISo2MknJDDCtQpzzzJ8zCUwFQXD5WonMZvnMFDWBprOp34 sMecE++KBgyg6HxuEXFV3eaOxWFsN3zLTz6uBTjVbWPohR1wTxdiMyNMDku3ydHUR6lp5XUJP reA5RSMREPLRyES7xwaYq0bqDFj1UZzREcZLqRqlypoEzD37Nblise3ZYrTkPytzADklPMbWy Vs4WpOWksz5dw5joJsIyX6+pi9SiEIAASgMSpx7/HbPr3LYLX3AQKgEfJQNyYmh2TX+BuqYKT S+Vxamii4kgAVyj3WzbgZwwmHQzAdXoQlWXESJt8p86ZWnrHk1rgswprZZw7qlvmNxjufp6HV BoqNkhgqQw8zPQ= Subject: Re: [Cake] tossing acks into the background queue X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 08:06:55 -0000 Hi Dave, On 23 November 2021 08:32:06 CET, Dave Taht wrot= e: >The context of my question is basically this: > >Is cake baked? Is it done? How about per MAC address fairness (useful for ISPs and to treat IPv4/6 eq= ually)? How about configurable number of queues (again helpful for ISPs)? IMHO cake works pretty well, with the biggest issue being its CPU demands= =2E As far as I understand however, that is caused by the shaper component = and there low latency and throughput are in direct competition, if we want = to lower the CPU latency demands we need to allow for bigger buffers that k= eep the link busy even if cake itself is not scheduled as precisely as we w= ould desire or as e=2Eg=2E BQL requires=2E Regards Sebastian > >Is there anything from libreQos that would be better in C? > >On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 11:17 PM Dave Taht wrot= e: >> >> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 11:07 PM Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >> > >> > Hi Dave, >> > >> > >> > On 23 November 2021 06:03:03 CET, Dave Taht = wrote: >> > >ages ago I'd (we'd? I really don't remember - forgive me if I've >> > >forgotten who actually leaned in on it) written a basic ack-filter i= n >> > >ebpf=2E this was before cake gained tc actions and my primary use fo= r >> > >the tech was for asymmetric connections, and before the good >> > >ack-filter arrived, and I was (and remain) unfriendly to this level = of >> > >dpi=2E >> > > >> > >That said, on a symmetric connection, deprioritizing pure acks to th= e >> > >5% background queue nd then turning the cake ack-filter loose on it >> > >might actually work=2E >> > > >> > >Am I on drugs/is there any point? >> > >> > I think at leat when using multiple priority tins forward and reverse= traffic should by default use the same tin (I can see non-standard situati= ons that want differential treatment)=2E The argument is that unlike earlie= r attempts at ingress shaping that tried to throttle reverse ACKs? cake/cod= el do proper 'hit the brakes' signalling via marking/dropping and we want t= hat signal to reach the other end as quickly as possible, no? >> >> My thought was basically an optional filter that steered all pure acks >> (no matter the classification) into the background queue=2E >> Non-pure-acks (sacks) essentially jump the background queue and signal >> that loss earlier=2E The backlog of other acks in background get >> delivered out of order, but purely out of order and discarded by the >> reciever=2E >> >> > Regards >> > Sebastian >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >-- >> > >I tried to build a better future, a few times: >> > >https://wayforward=2Earchive=2Eorg/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=2Eicei= =2Eorg >> > > >> > >Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >Cake mailing list >> > >Cake@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >> > >https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/cake >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity= =2E >> >> >> >> -- >> I tried to build a better future, a few times: >> https://wayforward=2Earchive=2Eorg/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=2Eicei=2Eo= rg >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E