From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lb0-x229.google.com (mail-lb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::229]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E0823ED0C for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2015 07:28:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lb0-x229.google.com with SMTP id bc4so45738724lbc.2 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:28:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=9t/o6A5YdHzikQh/76OlKYJ60YFygi+gwCFXzP4W99A=; b=CeRKVKApCWB3rjBuDrHkqTrHRniPdtS8lHsDTmlqslJwqN9WRxAl2wtJa3+snw0Udu ioSAEz7SrVSXOz+90kwlg58cJ3wdikDpjJb03PgcTjf7prw+LjbtTvtZFrZ4BFZFMZ5q TksYZEw0CjvePX+3OJV42pVfgkAj/DgUomPl8RRYhgILm3ZHsdohTsqYL0IR6wNzX/W7 p+nWQATWn7GelSd16qD35Qqh9Q6Jg6jfjKowkHoVAwb720mVj20MZ5m5exsYKbrtnu9I WcAtxzo5z85bpHPoT2uWLDQ7beC8NJjSfi1+m+pCmjW6Tge6xV0DzPEbZwu0zOmBfaxr pxng== X-Received: by 10.112.137.5 with SMTP id qe5mr10349971lbb.33.1450873702096; Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from bass.home.chromatix.fi (37-33-99-74.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.99.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j204sm6322390lfd.16.2015.12.23.04.28.07 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:28:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 14:27:27 +0200 Cc: Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant , moeller0 , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6F86FBB0-AA69-44F3-82D0-31465906974D@gmx.de> <56657A82.2080601@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <95560E7E-DEAF-40D8-B704-CEA38A0CDE62@gmx.de> <85A5A21C-E468-4F81-8A36-0F1AD6C84435@gmx.de> <5679CF0F.4080506@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Subject: Re: [Cake] second system syndrome X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 12:28:23 -0000 > On 23 Dec, 2015, at 13:43, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > squashing and washing are both well within the realm of ietf best > practices. It is highly desirable to have this level of simple control > on cake for inbound - for example, 90+ of all comcast traffic, no > matter how originally marked, comes in marked as background, and > should be changed to best effort on the gateway. Doing so with an > iptables rule is inefficient and it is difficult (along with the rest > of sqm-scripts) to hook into other people's iptables rules. My argument is simple: if you care enough about Diffserv to notice = Comcast meddling with it, you almost certainly want to do something = *much* more sophisticated than just =E2=80=9Cwash=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Csquash=E2=80=9D. The one exception I can think of is where the untrusted DSCP interacts = badly with some congested internal-network equipment - such as a long = wifi link - that can=E2=80=99t be reconfigured to ignore untrusted = DSCPs. So I can see why you specifically are interested in the = =E2=80=9Csquash" feature, but pretty much nobody else will be. = =E2=80=9CWash=E2=80=9D is just plain wrong. Given that this entire thread is about concern over scope creep, = changing the DSCP is my line in the sand. Doing it properly is out of = scope, so doing it *at all* is *also* out of scope. What =E2=80=9Cwash=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Csquash=E2=80=9D have done, = though, is to show that changing the DSCP in a qdisc can be done. = Hence, it should be straightforward to implement a qdisc, which can be = stacked with Cake or any other Diffserv-aware qdisc, that covers the = common use-cases properly and without the major overhead of firewall = rules (which, in any case, apply too late to be useful on ingress). I = have some ideas, which I intend to detail separately. As a compromise, I=E2=80=99ll leave =E2=80=9Csquash=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Cwash=E2=80=9D in place (since they=E2=80=99re already there) = until a better solution is available. - Jonathan Morton