From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8275C3B29E for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 03:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id v25-v6so1092094lji.4 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 00:12:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=67u0hbIf4KVTAJ5OZrwqE8MJwyX25nBBEZwL5IZiR78=; b=dfb5KpDEHotYA0XQcLc4ZJ3zWpYdbIUgsJswUSmJ+0ix1EuIuf6riF7cC5mtgnc5jn csqhBABj5xufM6/Vf+ht/zYHkPwIjm0UpSQAp1FyVOm6yrvb0Hl3aXaWHj4H7FT0DWZ5 lC5B46FyRW2BDFueV2FA3pAmCeYRlbz82Z1Mx5t5tP+574ZjN3E9zmcDKPBi+0mpLtiC y0pf1dG4E2bFGChZ0786D3FaxHM37r0duQ3c1QR2gqVjpgihYPqXd5+vhO5hReFwlljh lPo3jCtS4cQ1EKtXm6Ptdo26BLq65mtgi1XtZmTAy/9+eTO1BxmDIbAGmGyuRoc4qvH/ q9/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=67u0hbIf4KVTAJ5OZrwqE8MJwyX25nBBEZwL5IZiR78=; b=fzo02fLlKZu/6CRZyavO5r7x014XSekHSrHJlJQMufauechccZ5HBZX4gnFPYysK+r BQZkcSQRzCJHWXz82v5LVp+0HuCE7S26YaPe5VkP3fFxfGRnP15AEkW0G+GkgbANfSyi FRKfKo2NcQIshJBaxZCHHXE6PvNyl9ABuBXKavQhz2h1Wmrn/AjIrQtdWQNFNIMZ498Q QXW6YDOYGpUeg9FFlj7P9c+AqezgkXL8jrVCwZyrHpid/oD5jxbutgxLOnKXEDZ8weeA URONZuOXweGnf2INJJRddm9XUicLy2q/Tlf+tPR5EIzWb2a5MLnUaB2eSq0CU4JYHQQS iTcA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3Af6NOHqsFew8YJAgwkt26HwHJ4CJrJJRln+P/SB0uRU0GXKVA 4O4nMJBDq08UXs+P2AEw2lU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIzTyrL5JRossTXXpZmQiXQEAT9D9u9Trd+dYEBQItO6IdtCxI5Hb/jSkWaNqt4MdaObhwWUg== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:980f:: with SMTP id a15-v6mr2791456ljj.143.1529737974375; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 00:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.105] (83-245-237-65-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.237.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d4-v6sm1522527ljg.44.2018.06.23.00.12.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 Jun 2018 00:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 10:12:48 +0300 Cc: Cake List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <944870507.1373672.1529653545007@webmail.strato.de> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Subject: Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 07:12:55 -0000 > On 23 Jun, 2018, at 8:35 am, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > * really hate the cake_dst/src/triple isolate graph and wish we had a > better way to express it. pie chart? Pie chart is a good idea for that one. Even better if it was a cake = chart. For the "evil" host, I recommend a gaming PC downloading an update = through Wargaming's launchers (World of Tanks/Warships/Warplanes). I = believe they use libtorrent, but practically all of the bandwidth is = supplied in practice by "web seeds", and the active flow count per = downloading host is typically in the hundreds, each to a different IP = address in WG's CDN. At that level, end-to-end congestion control = simply does not work without network assistance, which Cake happily = provides. Another local host could be running a videoconference session to two or = three remote callers simultaneously, while a third simply downloads = something with a single stream. - Jonathan Morton