From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x22b.google.com (mail-qk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA6593B2A4; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id v17-v6so666550qkb.11; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ugx2GS6e15R8Cue7vK/sy4XsGMprA7xCeTEa5fgzeEc=; b=pnIZOM827lPsYecFeSTHvpood1EiHrQGLfg8cccsyiWvXy5SfhblSHDWIqOtyEHLg6 +g26oA16AFs9H5alKXuyVszcYIeGMd4y5iFY6rMoxB7Bwb9lkzz6y1srL/MDHE35Wrmz LTynwsGCF//RdJgoftWogszi0uzBBQQ38Pynrk2fiNz3hImooTZcjWf84jT6VXVWoL06 JVQ79azcS9xmguna/bqLin6cXSDvWLvQzpg8bmGXc3El6bt2I8HPivfIimmNN6yjdTNa 1HHuzDR75JLF+eUHdrn8AV5YUnqY3C+rNWLFwo0IbWJzjLxfvVLggM77E51gsA3SpONX OoYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ugx2GS6e15R8Cue7vK/sy4XsGMprA7xCeTEa5fgzeEc=; b=MxqJH7xzeJoCIaAf6VB9s7qgGeDZgLhNJBrjVzCB3mic3bpRB55qsciuYcZ/VNdsC1 yuJi+DFLtBT6x4UpThK1TXmr3SdmHm0DEJmfnAmivxmsCyc4y1vFzyfrqU1XgoIZbmzc Ka50h4h1t+RdGMlWvWcA/Vj/WTm/YxAlTm++aC9h07ICuTiKsVOSUWDTfxSZ4vZJ9HYx vLrbqEUg60qW2Vjyf6QypAajVhaxCMM62a61ssyEo3u+aQP3tH1hQja++OUKDgKsNZA3 BjGM9eYHX8d/NM7ix4NsbB99TRR70hYnXfmPacdHfuzNFzCqhNz/3M1Wa11ip8FsuHBn 1UXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEjj7xDxKKqsUyV1OLbjnq3Ul9Ny55Wmp2LdXzgGytqjShPy+pA 9zBvHEaZPklE4o2dasuoVI+3pS0x9nDpQul+Y/0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcVSqtCob/6WVRM72RPkw0iwOvB90lzHgj72kTPPgCT5CWKaGLjCJ2SSaKNdN6kYLHDffJNuKs/UaAxUwxymLQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:2121:: with SMTP id h33-v6mr11784648qkh.319.1532360218386; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1A06B0BB-4B2F-4E94-B947-EF41BCC3F18C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 08:36:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: Jonathan Morton , Cake List , Make-Wifi-fast , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] Van Jacobson's slides on timing wheels at netdevconf X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:36:59 -0000 On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 5:52 AM Mikael Abrahamsson wrote= : > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2018, Jonathan Morton wrote: > > > An example of such a situation would be sparse flows in DRR++, which is > > a key part of fq_codel and Cake. So to implement DRR++ using timing > > wheels, you have to choose your scheduling horizon carefully so as to > > minimise the delay to sparse packets. > > At the spring IETF, there was talk from IEEE person about using ethernet > pause frames to get senders to stop talking for a while. My understanding > was that this was on microsecond scale or even nanosecond time scales. > > One of the mentions in the presentation was on slide 10 about > "fat-buffered router". In the data center, these are kind of going away, > because on-die memory is small and rates are high. A 64x100GE forwarding > asic might have 16MB of buffer, which is very little buffer for the kind > of bit rates we're talking here. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsJMvAqEQCBE 1h44m in (proposed IEEE > 802.1Qcz work) is the one I am thinking of. OK, I watched a bit of that. Lot of handwaving. Prior to that I fast forwarded past BB's l4s thing and looked a little at PSS, which essentially looked like it was doing FQ between dscp marks.... I think the ietf should just rename itself to being DCTF (the data center task force) and let some other org arise to take care of the internet. > Wonder how this would interact with the timing wheel proposed by Van Jaco= bson. FIFO queues remain cheap. I keep hitting reload hoping the video to the talk was up. > Jacobson? > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619