From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B38E13B29E; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 17:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id r9so5001462ile.5; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y8f1Q2LKqjI56W/We02nYmCXxiVl0byuw4i9OaQgCMI=; b=LHB7QM2bs6StXmMROIjpCzQC2wYM8zYxtWnL/94v1j2iqZNUMSYcPYppYIwPWF3XGS sWm5uW5zQ3vD8rsnfCwWIZKwOSYEWRF68kno5Gd+C8mv1BuEHdr/tTmLFSoIz9AG35bj a1S+Ph0k3aL/0KZh7TTF9Z+PE2lu2ORL4slsTfFvOoRDYeeTvwdgteFt/dfY3K/3+csr LNX8yYuzmImdvVE7k2g2W7aD0ehSOd2T8X7Y9lUOFnOsPi5tkNaAHq7ItKJ+ZXNS9duI 7+SKc3vJ3CRiJocdN81s3Fgfmld5+Be+ITGxY0I2EmXcSw68yTt0k4fr60gNrA52GUsg 2rRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y8f1Q2LKqjI56W/We02nYmCXxiVl0byuw4i9OaQgCMI=; b=lPrZ1Ux6vJKd1fki9JfNXb28nCO4QqtaECayBnKZQCBQSn2HcOL2yIYCSZxNT37qjl cHlQZiXDNGcHlY0iAP7TP8zGljM/ExFcb9vszr7ZcbqlESJsv9oVi2ctOeuDJGnzq9EK /buQcYK5FRYuWJss/FiN6uA/1CEIjMR8eE0ElxJelGfPjppznhUkC3nxq2Y+3wC8s1d0 hBnOJ2RhDxbv/4XL3lpoh6AnBKMQj59sHgIqNGA0+i/fCzkcDPmXWU4uaWQbfI+oMS61 OmdlH4iXE9FFC4dvgzpbPc58CTMUhZL6Hzm3QDRS4Wqepq7lzPufHyJGpykwwxEMryPK wpjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532vhLEyi52RiXAYm3GZAUmD92fFDL+uG2AJgI5af04RzljALFDq 76/H632g5ovC32mz1lVI6D6KK9gw7PqA1IGdsL9oJGRK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzziitl0Zd/w8nIRZ/t5wW95lMi+NPVLSEJK8I91wHZwswNAKhU6aJALw6mJ5cIt9QgXSifAyAKOUdLzeRBrxE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:8a3:: with SMTP id a3mr1008430ilt.88.1634246858021; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 14:27:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: Cake List , ECN-Sane Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] l4s kernel submission X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 21:27:38 -0000 weirdly enough, my gmail account has not received anything from netdev since oct 11. yes, i think fq_codel will be better, and even the proposed too-shallow threshold will make for less of a dent on the internet. still... I do wish I'd seen this earlier. On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 1:31 PM Sebastian Moeller wrote: > > Which does not change the inconvenient fact that L4S does not work over t= he open internet. But I bet that fq_codel with a shaper is going to be hand= s down the better L4S AQM compared to DualQ... (thanks to its fq nature it = can forego the whole "coupling" heuristic mess and side-step the whole mass= ive unfairness issues, and keeping the known working codel law for non-ECT(= 1) traffic also compared to dualq's burts intolerabt PIE variant also seems= like a step in the right direction). > Then again it seems consequent given that the BBRv2 team seem to be on-bo= ard the L4S train; to put a somewhat positive spin (lipstick?) on this, I a= ssume that the quality of the L4S engineering might improve... > > Regards > Sebastian > > P.S.: Witnessing the L4S drama in the IETF makes me appreciate how compar= atively clean and elegant sausages are made... > > > > > On Oct 14, 2021, at 22:06, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20211014175918.60188-3-eric.dumazet@gmail.c= om/ > > > > -- > > Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xr= wgw > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > _______________________________________________ > > Cake mailing list > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > --=20 Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC