From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CFBA3B29F for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 15:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id j129so19138929qkd.1 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:29:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6WES8nOE7ZEGeCekgsDDMMumphLVAlCR1fqwouX/stw=; b=kw4FfbuKVwyimsmeHmKeqK2LUNLnusav/0iO2kxpCzOkhWDH2ilErqMnhi5pevIDQ6 YEt5aelcCzn4ItLIeuApOBexsD/06fxIzRf/mIPApJDlHdxd5cgmJBnoIPcwppSTCMQO lCoDaQptjsv8CaT4aV1qtzoedVdJk8v84oPSoX6/Lg+ZJZ6FGa3jNMHd87UsO08ZOqUt 1VY9UrwwCV0eZZF4wKQKSnlsrq+FoIed9wy2O/AtD7lP+yIO5NIfI7QU5+eJSRiWSXo2 i1JmRamJqGeVIwnwvOD56ogUwARIKkV1LeOvsD9co5qXGsl6dUo24YPGbSPw4SuK1ymx NRDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6WES8nOE7ZEGeCekgsDDMMumphLVAlCR1fqwouX/stw=; b=mDOdCs5Sak7ZeDaRh9AyKG3ULGPanzPZhz7Vn4A1ZoN3gaWvBeEmOKld2eKPQEJlZE qNFTTOA/xx69nfZNZWx9WgkXHRdM3VCqSCeyZi1axHGo5uoNC/9iFSpJ7J7r+NZTw2uW p2fOTyWQ9fli7dIUMwLMCUxWFjXs4+GOkbpTOUOgFjs+PwPffx+IKKLIsrbffSrFjlcm V+OUibfGG4mlzhETgLXPIh2PCkttF9HI3annG3E7c2h8Q/EdttAcluFCtlwNUbKuitGH kK4oCo9sbw7HEOiG+VUtPfwHCj39oO2YngAx0jFj8spVKm0vRXA8lpyg2A/wTHlgh0K4 d7gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9Rmr7CJ9QSvcdjlwhlnfvMXhc813So7JXj9csrMrIfw+osjEBtTswKr1EuYJjIPxUMKeka4lremzocTGIg== X-Received: by 10.55.73.6 with SMTP id w6mr31015273qka.59.1475004594928; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.137.214 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <27B5A7E3-203D-468F-B487-BFFC9294D857@gmail.com> References: <32E6B0A0-6014-4510-9D97-02645F0EFDFD@gmail.com> <27B5A7E3-203D-468F-B487-BFFC9294D857@gmail.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:29:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Morton Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] cake for net-next 4.8 X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:29:55 -0000 On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Jonathan Morton w= rote: > >> On 27 Sep, 2016, at 21:18, Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Jonathan Morton wrote: >>> >>>> On 25 Sep, 2016, at 21:30, Dave Taht wrote: >>>> >>>> Judging from me tearing apart how TCP BBR works (presently) with ecn, >>>> it looks like we need to add the equivalent to fq_codel ce_threshold >>>> behaviors as well. >>> >>> If I=E2=80=99m reading the legend correctly, you are setting ce_thresho= ld to 1ms to get the better-controlled result. But that effectively disabl= es the codel algorithm and turns it into a simple =E2=80=9Cmark all packets= over 1ms sojourn=E2=80=9D for ECN capable traffic, because it=E2=80=99s a = tighter limit than codel=E2=80=99s target. That=E2=80=99s too aggressive f= or non-BBR traffic. >> >> Yes it is. :) However the consensus appears to be that ECN should be >> an earlier signal than drop, and the work over on the tcp-prague list >> centers around repurposing ECT(1) as more like a DCTCP multi-bit >> signal. > > My interpretation of the consensus is more subtle: we need a signal earli= er than we currently do, and with a weaker meaning, but we still need the s= trong, later signal. > > I don=E2=80=99t think we should use CE for that; it has a long-establishe= d and widely-deployed meaning. We *can* use ECT(1), which is presently unu= sed in practice. I have not been paying much attention of late to more carefully manage my blood pressure. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bbr-dev/VNUBKAeJSdc >> I'm really not sure if what I've seen with ce_threshold is the >> desired behavior, vs a vs BBR, thus far - but I'd like to see the >> option for it enter cake. > > Before I even consider doing that, could you add a comparable run with th= e current version of cake to that graph? COBALT is not quite identical to = Codel, and this looks like a case where one of the differences could be imp= ortant. OK, at some point, but I have to abandon the lab, it looks like: http://abc7news.com/news/loma-fire-grows-to-at-least-1000-acres-in-santa-cr= uz-mountains-/1527657/ I'm currently packing up everything that's important! > > - Jonathan Morton > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! http://blog.cerowrt.org