From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x243.google.com (mail-qk0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E8103B29E for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2018 14:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x243.google.com with SMTP id b5-v6so8030640qkg.6 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2018 11:45:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ACKgwpE7C/WL021AuwGIuc06vDQJksVLINekm5fkj1o=; b=TJcJ77BkwUc5MfOkxqAmtbPiGxgSNwb/9iY+7hPoT64iWwAJESaXytKgT6/Mow1cSp 9oyEVMneFvgmf8Uv50B7U2ILBIPTg3X8j8JZjcAxdBlRabawLjIYWegrEohM1vdBKlDf BHZr/7nqxZVVotyDSKfqkVYi+kKkxYlFOchqoRVtCBq1H5tkSnFuKcHyrS/EDVNnSdSY Gdm7oN+4YxGmxOuwysau1H3plBAmaUjtSMMGwKQai7lILCGzZc9uAzrbH+5/dOCNm5Aa FmBNWqnklFLgu+0lpAflDoKABVi761g6egQUpZsCyorOj8yCpUQqV6xjoX/iXxFYhgYx O8zQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ACKgwpE7C/WL021AuwGIuc06vDQJksVLINekm5fkj1o=; b=RxCP3dJT+WDFbiheHUpOX2ZkbGVsRLymsPkvWEvN4ewfLrM8v/PlV8OubFLqp0gP9e bLifauTyOdYG/JPToNOeIJ6PvT7Er82nGwTslPslXuwB1BeryM16k6GXdVFql1D4E0Sh 4q52EdenifDgi0osmPEH6j14aCermimh7arUFaSlfGJ3Jr/bwgAz36s++LKn8pULC9fZ fqWcRvCPIlIMxMLaa39lOYAmVxFNcvBkUBB1djkttUY5RWHISHl0PvyFiH6nmWLIZEVT ohQoeVjF+h2khHfwDMF+Lud2ES5aB2x0v3E4+iTWGDxvPv2ZbD/CxH74BCphBlPxfKfv CSUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEiTvfcNeAItuj6VXU9Q4jT/p1P08OOPWCPt+1eC5RMR/fiOnPH UsWjOTPg4P+ZeqX5Kv3+//qVbhbeEGLBGM5gyUVHlHZh X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfnrOXS6DzYAqlGwJw17VJ2Aca0dnhd9xK/AHhyj/k/sSB/dCDmJnZZgtXwEP6T28oAsq0AJYdHnmPj2p5BZmc= X-Received: by 2002:a37:2121:: with SMTP id h33-v6mr6085281qkh.319.1532198733346; Sat, 21 Jul 2018 11:45:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2018 11:45:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] policers, finally X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2018 18:45:34 -0000 I was off in the cheap seats watching, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLdjavTiMrs0&feature=3Dyoutu.be&t=3D1h10m3= s saying "yes, for ghu's sake, back off half on ecn - or more! And if you are going to try defeating policers, despite the desperate reasons for them to exist... it's time to come up with a policer that will fool your algorithm enough so the gamer downstairs stops screaming in frustration!" and then there was the aqm talk where they tried to move the setpoint so the link was always buffered, rather than trying to hit the artificially small buffer size and back off... (actually I liked this talk because you can also try configuring the setpoint to where it was below capacity) On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:38 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:37 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM Arie wrote: > > > > > > It does. > > > > well, one approach seems to be to police as per that bug report at say > > 90-95% of the actual inbound rate, while shaping at 85%... or some > > combination thereof. > > > > figuring out the "burst" value is tricky, of course, but I'd much > > rather let the queues build up in cake than the cmts, and putting a > > brick wall there at this point in the internet's evolution seems like > > a start. > > > > this morning I spent watching ietf preso after preso "accept" that > > 100ms of queuing delay and pdv was acceptible, then showing tests with > > 50 packet buffers showing that things like BBR worked ok at 100mbit, > > when... well... here I am at hundred mbit, with 300+ms of inherent > > queuing delay on the cable downlink, that shapes down nicely using > > cake vs cubic to 5-40, looking at the carnage. I *don't like* policers > > (at least, not what's deployed today), and the BBR folk don't like > > them either... but they seem necessary if overly aggressive transports > > (as netflix's appears to be, also) exist. > > > > > > > > > > On 21 July 2018 at 20:02, Dave Taht wrote: > > >> > > >> In other news: > > >> > > >> https://github.com/tohojo/sqm-scripts/issues/68 > > >> > > >> does the ER4 have act_police? > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 10:55 AM Arie wrote: > > >> > > > >> > It's Ziggo NL/Liberty Global. I'm surprised by the reported latenc= y in the fast.com test. Both the site and the flent ping test report about = the same 60-ish ms. DSLReports and flent RRUL report way more bufferbloat,= so I guess those stress my connection more than fast.com > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On 21 July 2018 at 19:45, Dave Taht wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> Thank you. At least for your ISP (?), at 250mbit, you can hold th= e > > >> >> damage down to something reasonable, and certainly you are winnin= g big > > >> >> on the upload. > > >> >> > > >> >> Good to know the ER4 can keep up, also. > > >> >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 10:36 AM Arie wro= te: > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Unshaped reno attached. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > On 21 July 2018 at 19:27, Dave Taht wrote= : > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Yours is not as horrific as mine in either case. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Can you provide an unshaped result as well? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 10:24 AM Arie = wrote: > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Two more data points. Shaped my connection to 250Mbit out of= the advertised 250Mbit (my usual setting) and shaped to 200Mbit out of the= 250Mbit. This is a pre-linux-net-next cake running on an Edgemax ER4 with = kernel 3.10.107-UBNT. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > The regular spikes in ICMP ping is due to the crappy Puma 6 = chipset in the cable modem. UDP is not affected. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > On 21 July 2018 at 19:20, Georgios Amanakis wrote: > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> On Sat, 2018-07-21 at 09:09 -0700, Dave Taht wrote: > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> > 1) Can someone else on a cablemodem (even without the lat= est cake, > > >> >> >> >> > this happens to me on older cake and fq_codel) try this t= est? > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> I just tried this on my cable comcast connection. I set ing= ress to ~80% > > >> >> >> >> of what fast.com reports when no shaper is in place. > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> #tc qdisc add dev ens4 root handle 8011 cake bandwidth 1600= 0kbit dual- > > >> >> >> >> dsthost docsis ingress > > >> >> >> >> #tc qdisc add dev ens3 root handle 8012 cake bandwidth 2500= kbit dual- > > >> >> >> >> srchost nat docsis ack-filter > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> I got the same result as you. This is using latest cake. > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Georgios > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> >> >> Cake mailing list > > >> >> >> >> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > >> >> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> >> >> > Cake mailing list > > >> >> >> > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > >> >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> -- > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > > >> >> >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > >> >> >> http://www.teklibre.com > > >> >> >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> > > >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > > >> >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > >> >> http://www.teklibre.com > > >> >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > > >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > >> http://www.teklibre.com > > >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > http://www.teklibre.com > > Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > > -- > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > CEO, TekLibre, LLC > http://www.teklibre.com > Tel: 1-669-226-2619 --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619