From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com (mail-qt0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03E493B2A4 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id a5-v6so2057817qtp.2 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:47:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oWJGfeh+1+FSWz8qs4E6wNGfCT3YgkHsVHk4ejTQ42M=; b=MEvVjuAFH54dwRQqgE/fFIpIV7yDk+V1nXHCEaLakA6sJfsv2b7ups4PcbUns/ndvX KJWRWfBZwHFWyGb9gOOPUK0UrK73rdd1jUpyLg8UztTEW4fez8Nnp4TU9L3nrYINe80Q PqKtLvlMUOR4thQWZCMqR/PKqL8P3uShdGnQ3jZ7qz1+pjs5NE4eR4Yp7RnjFay3tYEI HG6y0njzecM7dhN1aBmOAfx0M/qWPXHdRvac7ntjfwzDIDaVwRbpVzG459Kr4Sgy5y7X DnvwuXIegl92Je7ics1xscoFdDmmyYDCU5GJ6rlo5HZVqImIDMk9BJFTkrP7PoejkWxe nIxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oWJGfeh+1+FSWz8qs4E6wNGfCT3YgkHsVHk4ejTQ42M=; b=EJondjAA1qhy3RLjv97954cNweqccKeT78c/wS8JQf1VDCEX5GYVDDfvvWoy+qAwt3 LcYbXtAMZX6NYC2egGNhb6EajXta4Gn4YIDeHW8Zx8xudbDx8mRRvw4mvYeDxBI82fpQ wKsJogn1yuBWsEcho4trEI+h/0YDD95oE2UVsSFQKgac8KqnROzSuh46oMfZnt4+rUv4 AuspJpDAQStsYB8Z/UNCplezrpf6FpHjTy4+k9zyg6SVV8k2I8mLGDQl3DVr+qHTKJdG OswXNLA4O4CSwc/Py98yKqYSeGvJD3I6aVUv5kW2tNDI9np8B3en3WBi0M9NLpg7SCAE pLGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGYOVMQ+qFpFuXZrf18t2aH6LHXO//+56ZSu4AWxAyYqviufbiz BNY6+Va0yy2u3MbVOV+FMNUHatiCfN1fkDvvAMg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpe3Ihk0wDHSJEyKyUjx+leYJEIm8kNhcOJ5iFRW/MWFyhneCJDW1A2s8MRClhjqHZk+c6JPSqtJ8pBxkKA84mU= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:31cd:: with SMTP id i13-v6mr13720954qte.144.1532378842462; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:47:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4C129A60-21D3-4B78-A764-DC8E2CD7E4DF@gmail.com> <6839ba220fe4399eba3620620515fc1dd801a509.camel@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:47:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Tristan Seligmann Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Jonas_M=C3=A5rtensson?= , Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] inbound cake or fq_codel shaping fails on cable on netflix reno X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:47:23 -0000 I wish vumatel the best of luck. One thing that still will help the fiber networks is applying fq_* derived algoritms. This is cake vs sonic (gpon) fiber in san francisco. They have a totally reasonable (60ms) buffer in their ONT, cut to... well... the result I get is even less latency loaded than unloaded: http://www.taht.net/~d/sonic_106_cake_vs_default.png In my mind fq techniques merely on the up on fiber onts will make a huge difference in perceived QoE, and the marketing department can keep claiming it's fiber bandwidth that counts to consumers. FIOS uses actiontec. I haven't picked apart what kernels the use in a couple years. http://opensource.actiontec.com/ (hey verizon FIOS? gfiber? you listening?) On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 9:45 AM Tristan Seligmann wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 at 17:26 Jonas M=C3=A5rtensson wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 4:56 PM Dave Taht wrote: >>> >>> Great info, thx. Using this opportunity to rant about city-wid >>> networks, I'd have done something so different >>> than what the governments and ISPs have inflicted on us, substituting >>> redundancy for reliability. >>> >>> I'd have used bog standard ethernet over fiber instead of gpon. >> >> >> Well, in Sweden 100% of ftth connections are standard active ethernet in= stead of gpon (and more than 60% of fixed connections are ftth). > > > Here in South Africa, we have one provider (Vumatel) deploying AE, and ev= eryone else doing GPON :/ --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619