From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 750A83B29E for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 09:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id j7-v6so9701900qkd.13 for ; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 06:58:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YVDSezystuJ8ZeMEZx9CCe8S/vHfY7NpeflLmQnVd6s=; b=EagUfkbXfRT4YHY3rfNcY3Zi8ip1hrAtDk27XMRqxpnBMNiP6soI83LY0Nqvxdj1Z4 WdlYECab5y8kjWOPkCMF6DSGwjFtrtbUfhN7QcwtDQHc8PaD7n2KVctf14skodJBuHKi u5fdcfqFX1770j9EfEOLR4NZEn40AbqJDZGBJgPCZ7bCqdXAjbTLemou3MnTJnvxIu+9 RZCJ+KBTB3zQ4TtiIrNhdx9bMTR4wG27L/X4TAnHl1m6wh26DmMI63IqKNAyBWHqvPrf 9Sm+sBZp0c8qyVowXSjGkGn7oG1zIoy1szSyEzI7lcY7Zm6wW/zLB9m1XSuq0p2N4uVq 0Xwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YVDSezystuJ8ZeMEZx9CCe8S/vHfY7NpeflLmQnVd6s=; b=mhqfLYfa8NBe2yLYJJmEIXPU7wOcuEzuDB1Pq9ITPJczMYF4cvh45EhrEzD4WN7dmx RugdHcWB7qaHn7cUr/STA1wyJ2Xyz7V6+YNEbs7IJj34BIDHEGQFiQENBdChUSP+qEpy CF4ePTyOL14bg7/6IjHGxeDuHuGbeOSErZhO2ha/RO1KPxBa8aU7Z6jvziVMRtOjrKTc g8qOVmnNfZr14E2iEmpRN4xNs+ITsJTiICxrgTKAui+LJIhgkQLD5SZFSUX4jgr3xWV1 kwhnbn7XIbrQYkopHqgqJoJLZOol3kK6aiTNAqjpsm30BqbywdJU8hmvaz853wXkb1+f oXgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51A7zdQ4XA3GufXGA5L1jbHT6XP9PNPR+h12w/RKxgRNeAF84M9Y 0bmKJLMUG5qQJ4Oe8IgaKy+PZobOW7uD74wqdfk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaaYx4TRCifIQKUMwq2UuleVi1k/Rms7Zudb0vJ/LL0Mvtv2qgyEPblJKUp+QWqJQDQqytAEcfH/Nm1T/FXioo= X-Received: by 2002:a37:b546:: with SMTP id e67-v6mr5982898qkf.237.1536328688915; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 06:58:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2CB335A2-E18F-430F-9331-9AD9B3238D84@heistp.net> <1CFBCFB1-AC8B-4172-A4EB-1CE65DE62EF6@gmail.com> <3BA06BE5-FBD2-4FC8-86BB-786679A66147@heistp.net> In-Reply-To: <3BA06BE5-FBD2-4FC8-86BB-786679A66147@heistp.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 06:59:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: Pete Heist Cc: Jonathan Morton , Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] FreeNet backhaul X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 13:58:09 -0000 you are making me pull out my mrtg stats, I'll post one. In the debloating universe, 5 minute averages really obscure the bufferbloat problem. What's important are drops/marks, reschedules, queue depths, and overlimits. I get about 3000 drops/day (debloats). I wish I could extrapolate what that and the reschedules means in terms of induced latency on other flows, easily. On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:00 AM Pete Heist wrote: > > > On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Jonathan Morton wrote= : > > On 7 Sep, 2018, at 1:37 am, Pete Heist wrote: > > This router is an old ALIX with kernel 2.6.26, but on the other hand it d= oes have hfsc + esfq (a variant of sfq with host fairness) deployed, so if = it=E2=80=99s actually controlling the queue, one might suspect that sfq it = could control inter-flow latency at least somewhat. > > > ESFQ has two important faults: it doesn't explicitly control the length o= f individual queues (only tail-drops when a global limit is reached), and i= t suffers from hash collisions at the full "birthday problem" rate. So som= e of your measurement traffic is likely colliding with real traffic and suf= fering accordingly. > > > Ah, ok, that is important. > > That still makes ESFQ far better than a dumb FIFO. > > > I=E2=80=99ve heard tales of the way things were. > > As a contrast, the router I=E2=80=99m on: https://www.heistp.net/download= s/vysina_ping.pdf The big difference here is this router=E2=80=99s uplink i= s licensed spectrum full-duplex 100Mbit, whereas Jerab from earlier is 5GHz= WiFi (2x NSM5). The shift around June was an upgrade from ALIX to APU. > > I haven=E2=80=99t seen evidence yet of backhaul links running at saturati= on for long periods. When I watch throughputs in real-time I do see pulses = though that probably don't show up in the long-term MRTG throughput graphs.= I wonder what queue lengths look like at millisecond resolution during the= se events. > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619