From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x234.google.com (mail-ob0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0507021F199; Mon, 18 May 2015 10:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbkp3 with SMTP id kp3so133056713obb.3; Mon, 18 May 2015 10:21:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gaBM1ONp1DuBCtOMh5r8cRcnW9L8/KLUYzbzcQS3Pzk=; b=rK9dfvRck6bPBDjyFYJ93ndVJjX+zFTNHt8FY8mWHO57MhdQc0pTMqAqsEunKMQNU9 Awup+QZBUXF3+fNyB00NTZ/m1DDYdHv7PU9KMqFD4KHx9FGAOV5womlVZcBMV0ZmyY4R JTvl5Ob981z8rfA+N4ENLsYpixRfmdzQZnbdDqLzKNuAI/kgG9FDzqzJHvjtqn7JFiN3 ihtNG6ITyA0MGqSx4GpXHCpPyqoqjnXllPB4aV5Kh964J8U/u42lI2NbnTD6pt1ooAb7 NgbWZcvi9mIP3hJvXxrHBdA+sljqtevpoQqhLnI5wNcoKv1qmRug3CkAjVcZ8sBSRcKT wljw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.103.36 with SMTP id ft4mr13849723oeb.39.1431969689812; Mon, 18 May 2015 10:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.71.139 with HTTP; Mon, 18 May 2015 10:21:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <14d67a7d978.27f7.e972a4f4d859b00521b2b659602cb2f9@superduper.net> References: <8C015B1B-EFBA-4647-AD83-BAFDD16A4AF2@netapp.com> <14d5800ec08.27f7.e972a4f4d859b00521b2b659602cb2f9@superduper.net> <1431919815.385726792@apps.rackspace.com> <55597353.2010408@superduper.net> <14d67011de0.27f7.e972a4f4d859b00521b2b659602cb2f9@superduper.net> <1431961775.459218261@apps.rackspace.com> <14d67a7d978.27f7.e972a4f4d859b00521b2b659602cb2f9@superduper.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 10:21:29 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Simon Barber Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "Klatsky, Carl" , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net, David Reed , "Eggert, Lars" , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] heisenbug: dslreports 16 flow test vs cablemodems X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:22:30 -0000 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Simon Barber wrote: > LEDBAT is often used for scavenger traffic - things that should not detra= ct > from normal Internet use. There are two effects, latency and bandwidth. > While AQM solves the latency problem, it removes the ability of LEDBAT to > not impact bandwidth during peak usage. data transport over neutrinos would help! seriously, iw10 and cubic knock utp out of the way to a larger extent that is a start. I would like it if we saw more work in the area of making ledbat lighter in the light of deployment of fq and aqm technologies. > Simon > > Sent with AquaMail for Android > http://www.aqua-mail.com > > On May 18, 2015 8:09:39 AM dpreed@reed.com wrote: >> >> I'm curious as to why one would need low priority class if you were usin= g >> fq_codel? Are the LEDBAT flows indistinguishable? Is there no congesti= on >> signalling (no drops, no ECN)? The main reason I ask is that end-to-end >> flows should share capacity well enough without magical and rarely >> implemented things like diffserv and intserv. >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 18, 2015 8:30am, "Simon Barber" >> said: >> >> I am likely out of date about Windows Update, but there's many other >> programs that do background downloads or uploads that don't implement LE= DBAT >> or similar protection. The current AQM recommendation draft in the IETF = will >> make things worse, by not drawing attention to the fact that implementin= g >> AQM without implementing a low priority traffic class (such as DSCP 8 - = CS1) >> will prevent solutions like LEDBAT from working, or there being any >> alternative. Would appreciate support on the AQM list in the importance = of >> this. >> >> Simon >> >> Sent with AquaMail for Android >> http://www.aqua-mail.com >> >> On May 18, 2015 4:42:43 AM "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >>> >>> On 2015-5-18, at 07:06, Simon Barber wrote: >>> >>> Windows update will kill your Skype call. >>> >>> >>> Really? AFAIK Windows Update has been using a LEDBAT-like scavenger-typ= e >>> congestion control algorithm for years now. >>> Lars > > > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67