From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x22a.google.com (mail-qk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08B523CB39 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 20:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id o205so4373187qke.3 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:26:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TVaRYZsF0LkgLSKWEAPvalM9PG/FsVCdpCgzC2vZiAE=; b=IoXvm10cGJQnR2TLSWIdohZjbWL2vqerjCuqcorRGUA6+FqvrnBwpuW6c2rt8atP3p hke4h2/MYSfEKvWSkIxtzKmeCLcKHvlW7tPm6PXzcMcJ55hhSnUDcdcDr9tAbVaJM2Gf pnaSM7ZNnxH5H3vyE/O4d00JgVzf6VL3N9nNNWMW4E/Hqq6cydZt+pWj2Z3WBaWICdcl pJh5pYKUUchx9iIThfGf0P7t++PKxxIAoRLYVHwBJOtHkq9aFfIgiNAbB4B1vNp5cJl0 YS7ntT84WELE4LqBHeOOrLD5GCsmb1gWywvjDpoCj7cDA6F/LCMff9WIVi3X/4gN0TKp RDJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TVaRYZsF0LkgLSKWEAPvalM9PG/FsVCdpCgzC2vZiAE=; b=WRcRHuVZkTKGiAvON5Kh9hQ67IrpXF4uW4o9pNnS6/a6RaEbeOiU3NXkUXv85uHiJJ HV9aPkgPVfxzHFZfb5l4yCggGPFJFJRK0Q3tfUPkX/ST2YSDJ+L2sR2K8Or1y+TnMGR3 HU074f6VSlCYIXVDWrWxRBMkGbUW5KrXq6HWqWbnHytFbY7XWje8Ume+Tt77JomSKiov 2BDRxYDkOhbe+rw6F51IhbtZg0Dvh8JbRBIcb6LTZ4AK+605scyYhQ8+dHJatsv6KZ7Z 0ICdCESFfNu0lHyfwazM3tIvlnHO0MuVb/QCyOCbZlwlc2+SpaNw8mKIltBVOBavDaoa EQnA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tC3gXjkCmk9abl6TlRwBQoGMoZelj5jB3c5LJYaZ/hZ8BxqRH5g ULahcHfhsvugv+zGRBwv3/7tqAjqrfTw2oNnXLA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/mNLHnwhc2HAWCo+Sfn67bNBLX6xq2CJHPwQtqDuwjZdnihOlPIpWhqHbqK9U9qd5L2UDZLSl99pZ2s7RreL0= X-Received: by 10.55.168.212 with SMTP id r203mr7874497qke.154.1522283179510; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:26:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.148.218 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:26:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0FDFC78B-95A4-4A4E-8498-6C4AC9610BD0@gmail.com> References: <87k1twgpsy.fsf@toke.dk> <0FDFC78B-95A4-4A4E-8498-6C4AC9610BD0@gmail.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:26:18 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Morton Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VG9rZSBIw7hpbGFuZC1Kw7hyZ2Vuc2Vu?= , Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] bufferbloat still misunderstood & ignored X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 00:26:20 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 5:04 PM, Jonathan Morton wr= ote: >> On 28 Mar, 2018, at 10:32 pm, Dave Taht wrote: >> >> The two line method is quite common among gamers. > > I'm pretty sure a single A&A ADSL connection costs less than two from a b= argain-basement ISP, what with line rental factoring into the total price. = Of course, not everyone is lucky enough to live in the UK and thus have ac= cess to A&A (myself included). > > Something else to shoehorn into the Cake paper: as future work, an ISP-fo= cused qdisc (or even a whole middlebox using commodity hardware) using a re= arranged version of the technology proven in Cake. Cake itself is focused = on managing a single link, whereas an ISP must deal with many subscriber li= nks (with a finite variety of service tiers) sharing a backhaul link, with = the link interface hardware itself being unable to avoid bufferbloat or to = share bandwidth fairly when congestion occurs. The backhaul link might be = to a local exchange, a shared cable medium, or a satellite hop. Everything can be solved with one more level of indirection. In this case a full solution would be to be able to cleanly pattern match against nexthop mac, or the set of ipv4 and ipv6 addresses the subscriber has, and feed each unique match into a queue that feeds into a cake-like instance. A cake of cakes. A partial solution could be one virtual interface per subscriber. A finicky bit would be who to penalize when the underlying medium (shared cable) is oversubscribed. > > - Jonathan Morton --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619