From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x12a.google.com (mail-il1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5E043B29E for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 11:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id x2so1786926ilp.13 for ; Fri, 08 May 2020 08:41:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kB9tk10pm/s1amV4os4XZVR5T+E02H5YjfMAD+xEXXw=; b=R3uIGqHJGlvZOhkdwcfAVz2pguI0UEJKMHqAhfPTTXomD5BquVOD1C++PMvpD9ql2V Ste1ov3hx864dRIGAAQzNWH6afdCKxq6oOiLy39gE5HtKfzsnXh9aOSjAt+LPVFgWJwI Mp5TWXBN4mQdQGAWJuFT50LlS5MsF9ObEWkhV+tIOQazq/FX7rPT1gI81g8xvc+pcSMq ZuhwtUKwHNj7hbfqUOgme9CCchRi1UpEtN4QKzyL2Q1GXfW0WVaREvpk9Q6AY1VhV0ck s2bvyKRD4xp4DkGxSll9LxkL7K0+ns7jCLoAzU2rkCCI0FqOpQ3T159paRwXEellArWo JHEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kB9tk10pm/s1amV4os4XZVR5T+E02H5YjfMAD+xEXXw=; b=SC0dbHPz2MnHqAjQevGMpNIRmTYp8UqS7K3JiUb2ovRCEh52IEdwC4HbyqvAz59wRG 4sKe+pJ1+07qZ/DqIuEso6hx4oOOfH+cv3vOSuf+Y0tYbMDc0yhU+YzwtBqFLVK0Y9om RCF/0H7orUuk0m8DORYGi20Z5mb24UNO0L5woHCNL8IPLzkocwQpfB3+q1DoGe8VXmiL 2MJRNpAcpSwAKd2Kp17gQe8qxxNwskRiETTXR3+RVg1VjMyaRYr7erQeC5vIDcLmZ9pa Q/TCGWrz6EMmb0ceAtltqtx2c91/R8Xshrs1jdb54i38zNwernKmsD/eRH59JyBKFomz 8u2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubLeYgpeAPu83sZIUENI1A9ra1jbI1bu9ztAp5UGzDVXXLKbkDy 4HbUDIlJPw/r04DcltBCKgmZNYwkyqfSserME1A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKYFq5nlwojOrGUP63A/ZuF7tBPiicjMcEE7QVOeXtmEFZmH/6aUYcD8VK60dC/K2eJ4DLoyOCkhAHKuBE+80U= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4014:: with SMTP id n20mr3443879ila.249.1588952462279; Fri, 08 May 2020 08:41:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87wo5okhbo.fsf@toke.dk> <875zd6h3bu.fsf@toke.dk> <7FCC9B1F-7F4B-43E8-B557-88B2A845C28B@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7FCC9B1F-7F4B-43E8-B557-88B2A845C28B@gmail.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 08:40:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Morton Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VG9rZSBIw7hpbGFuZC1Kw7hyZ2Vuc2Vu?= , Avakash bhat , Vybhav Pai , Shrinidhi Varna , Cake List , "Mohit P. Tahiliani" , Deepak K Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] Query on ACK X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 15:41:02 -0000 acks at the time you have reached a point of dropping them significantly have filled the pipe, also. What I saw here was that the first flow to really get going, and really get dropped, dominated over the others, because I thought it was consistently ending up in the priority queue. http://blog.cerowrt.org/post/ack_filtering/ Look, all I'm proposing is this idea be tried and tested. Cynically... since there's a new model coming out as the result of this work, it immediately turns into something a good paper can hing on. On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:20 AM Jonathan Morton wrot= e: > > >> The ACK filter runs on enqueue, so if a queue has only ACKs in it, it > >> will never accumulate anything in the first place... > > > > but the side effect is that on dequeue, it flips it into the fast > > queue drr rotation, not the slow, so it can't accumulate > > as many acks before delivering the one it has left. > > > > Or so I thought, way back when.... > > The ack filter converts a stream of acks that might be treated as a bulk = flow into a sparse flow, which is delivered promptly. This is a good thing= ; an ack should not be held back solely to see whether another one will arr= ive. > > I think of it as an optimisation to reduce delay of the information in th= e ack stream, not solely as a way to reduce the bandwidth consumed by the a= ck stream; the latter is a happy side effect. > > - Jonathan Morton --=20 Make Music, Not War Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-435-0729