* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-18 17:44 Dave Taht
@ 2018-06-18 17:50 ` Loganaden Velvindron
2018-06-18 17:52 ` Loganaden Velvindron
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2018-06-18 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: Cake List
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:44 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started at the lanman2018 talk (to be given next tuesday), this past
> weekend, for "piece of cake" ( https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.07617 )
>
> Try as I might, finding a memorable narrative hook to fit into 20
> minutes eludes me. There's so much to cake! There's no room for me to
> break out a guitar or carry a case of water bottles into this preso.
>
> A principal complaint of the reviewers of the paper was the lack of
> real world tests, so I snuck in a couple sides for that and am working
> on incorporating the graphs and other text from the paper.
>
> But ya know, it's always been a group effort and if anyone(s) here
> would like to contribute better slides, jokes, text, ideas, graphs,
> charts, or whatever, it would be helpful, because I can no longer see
> the forest after passing through it. I've oft wished we had the
> equivalent of a corp communications department 'cause my attempts at
> graphics generally suck.
>
> What does a ieee lanman2018 audience already grok, what needs to be explained?
>
> I will be periodically updating the currently very raw
>
> http://www.taht.net/~d/cake/ieee.odp
>
> as we go along. Please share your thoughts....
>
>
I thought that BBR solved a number of bufferbloat issues ? Maybe
elaborate on the shortcomings of BBR. Particularly this comment:
"But best case only work within an RTT"
>
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-18 17:44 Dave Taht
2018-06-18 17:50 ` Loganaden Velvindron
@ 2018-06-18 17:52 ` Loganaden Velvindron
2018-06-20 8:25 ` Luca Muscariello
2018-06-20 15:45 ` Pete Heist
3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2018-06-18 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: Cake List
I use cake 24 hours/7 days. From Mauritius to Europe, it's around
250-300ms at worse. To use, it's up to 500ms.
qdisc cake 8035: dev pppoe-wan root refcnt 2 bandwidth 4Mbit diffserv3
triple-isolate rtt 300.0ms raw
Sent 170109544 bytes 1647933 pkt (dropped 186, overlimits 248108 requeues 0)
backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
memory used: 357280b of 4Mb
capacity estimate: 4Mbit
Bulk Best Effort Voice
thresh 250Kbit 4Mbit 1Mbit
target 72.7ms 15.0ms 18.2ms
interval 357.7ms 300.0ms 36.3ms
pk_delay 0us 1.4ms 915us
av_delay 0us 76us 251us
sp_delay 0us 6us 9us
pkts 0 1645098 3021
bytes 0 169843927 528062
way_inds 0 82831 0
way_miss 0 27629 102
way_cols 0 0 0
drops 0 186 0
marks 0 0 0
sp_flows 0 0 0
bk_flows 0 1 0
un_flows 0 0 0
max_len 0 2900 576
qdisc ingress ffff: dev pppoe-wan parent ffff:fff1 ----------------
Sent 3237380050 bytes 2510970 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
qdisc cake 8036: dev ifb4pppoe-wan root refcnt 2 bandwidth 24Mbit
besteffort triple-isolate rtt 300.0ms raw
Sent 3236131275 bytes 2510117 pkt (dropped 854, overlimits 3210384 requeues 0)
backlog 1492b 1p requeues 0
memory used: 2033600b of 4Mb
capacity estimate: 24Mbit
Tin 0
thresh 24Mbit
target 15.0ms
interval 300.0ms
pk_delay 471us
av_delay 228us
sp_delay 12us
pkts 2510972
bytes 3237383034
way_inds 58277
way_miss 27873
way_cols 0
drops 854
marks 0
sp_flows 0
bk_flows 1
un_flows 0
max_len 1492
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:44 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started at the lanman2018 talk (to be given next tuesday), this past
> weekend, for "piece of cake" ( https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.07617 )
>
> Try as I might, finding a memorable narrative hook to fit into 20
> minutes eludes me. There's so much to cake! There's no room for me to
> break out a guitar or carry a case of water bottles into this preso.
>
> A principal complaint of the reviewers of the paper was the lack of
> real world tests, so I snuck in a couple sides for that and am working
> on incorporating the graphs and other text from the paper.
>
> But ya know, it's always been a group effort and if anyone(s) here
> would like to contribute better slides, jokes, text, ideas, graphs,
> charts, or whatever, it would be helpful, because I can no longer see
> the forest after passing through it. I've oft wished we had the
> equivalent of a corp communications department 'cause my attempts at
> graphics generally suck.
>
> What does a ieee lanman2018 audience already grok, what needs to be explained?
>
> I will be periodically updating the currently very raw
>
> http://www.taht.net/~d/cake/ieee.odp
>
> as we go along. Please share your thoughts....
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-18 17:44 Dave Taht
2018-06-18 17:50 ` Loganaden Velvindron
2018-06-18 17:52 ` Loganaden Velvindron
@ 2018-06-20 8:25 ` Luca Muscariello
2018-06-20 15:45 ` Pete Heist
3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Luca Muscariello @ 2018-06-20 8:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: Cake List
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2677 bytes --]
In my opinion, you should introduce the challenges faced to get to this
point a little bit more.
There has been an historically difficult insertion of packet scheduling in
the Internet.
FQ in the first place has suffered ostracism for a number of reasons, some
acceptable criticism,
some others just driven by ignorance.
You don't make that point at the beginning of the presentation and you
should, IMO.
Let me be a little dramatic for a second.
It's been an odyssey. Really, if we start counting from John Nagle (1985)
and
Ellen Hahne's Ph.D thesis at MIT supervised by Robert Gallager.
And take FQ_codel RFC as another milestone in 2018.
More than 30 years. That's an odyssey. Longer actually as Ulysses stayed
away from home only 20 years!
So cake is really sitting on giant's shoulders.
But the list is long, Jim Roberts, Scott Shenker, Luigi Rizzo and many many
others, sorry the list is too long.
Why so difficult? Was it worthy?
I think you should say that at the conference.
Gook luck!
Ellen L. Hahne:
Round robin scheduling for fair flow control in data communication networks.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA, USA 1986
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:44 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started at the lanman2018 talk (to be given next tuesday), this past
> weekend, for "piece of cake" ( https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.07617 )
>
> Try as I might, finding a memorable narrative hook to fit into 20
> minutes eludes me. There's so much to cake! There's no room for me to
> break out a guitar or carry a case of water bottles into this preso.
>
> A principal complaint of the reviewers of the paper was the lack of
> real world tests, so I snuck in a couple sides for that and am working
> on incorporating the graphs and other text from the paper.
>
> But ya know, it's always been a group effort and if anyone(s) here
> would like to contribute better slides, jokes, text, ideas, graphs,
> charts, or whatever, it would be helpful, because I can no longer see
> the forest after passing through it. I've oft wished we had the
> equivalent of a corp communications department 'cause my attempts at
> graphics generally suck.
>
> What does a ieee lanman2018 audience already grok, what needs to be
> explained?
>
> I will be periodically updating the currently very raw
>
> http://www.taht.net/~d/cake/ieee.odp
>
> as we go along. Please share your thoughts....
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-18 17:44 Dave Taht
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2018-06-20 8:25 ` Luca Muscariello
@ 2018-06-20 15:45 ` Pete Heist
2018-06-21 3:43 ` Dave Taht
3 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Pete Heist @ 2018-06-20 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: Cake List
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3670 bytes --]
> On Jun 18, 2018, at 7:44 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Try as I might, finding a memorable narrative hook to fit into 20
> minutes eludes me. There's so much to cake! There's no room for me to
> break out a guitar or carry a case of water bottles into this press.
To me, explaining this stuff is about trying to connect the technology with relatable human experience, and asserting/showing that the continued focus on throughput is misplaced. Is this audience already aware of that, or not? Maybe test them up front to see how much you need to talk about it. If you assume they know this and they don’t, the blank stares will start a minute or two into the talk...
If at least some people in the audience need an explanation, or even if you just want to hammer it home, for this type of crowd (should at least be somewhat technical), why not make an analogy with the “Megahertz myth <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth>”? That finally died in 2005 with the Pentium Extreme Edition (with the “Extreme” part not describing its speed, but rather its flirtation with thermal limits), when AMD came out with a “slower” CPU that was actually faster. Finally there was an awareness that ah, it’s not just clock speed, it’s pipelines, it’s caching, it’s branch prediction, it’s the instruction set, it’s…complicated, and there’s no getting around it.
Let’s start arguing that there’s an analogous “Megabit myth” that has no Wikipedia page yet because it persists to this day. Analogous to the megahertz myth, it’s not just “megabits per second”, but it’s inter-flow latency, it’s intra-flow latency, it’s fairness, it’s IPDV, it’s all of this under dynamic loads, it’s…complicated. And because it’s a complicated problem, Cake has a number of solutions built into it, which you’ll talk about... Perhaps Cake’s mascot should be a multi-headed creature of some kind (the monster that Eric referred to), maybe a hydra. Cake is definitely multi-headed. :)
If this audience is aware of this already, just move beyond it more quickly, but it’s worth hammering it home at least a bit, because again, where’s that "Megabit myth" Wikipedia page? It doesnt exist, because it hasn’t yet sunk in to the general consciousness that hey, why are we paying for 50Mbit symmetric fiber connections that can feel like 5Mbit ADSL?
Will the abandonment of network neutrality finally be the “Pentium Extreme Edition” that brings the megabit myth to a head?
> A principal complaint of the reviewers of the paper was the lack of
> real world tests, so I snuck in a couple sides for that and am working
> on incorporating the graphs and other text from the paper.
I hadn’t noticed that complaint, but it’s legit. RRUL tests are interesting and point out what “should” happen, but long-term “before and after” tests on real networks and backhauls would be real proof. This doesn’t help you at this late stage in the game, but let’s take that comment to heart in the future. Meanwhile, do we have any quotes from users on how it improved their experience, or is that too anecdotal? or quotes from people in the field?
> What does a ieee lanman2018 audience already grok, what needs to be explained?
That’s a key question, you’ll probably have to feel the audience out unless someone knows the conference already?
> I will be periodically updating the currently very raw
>
> http://www.taht.net/~d/cake/ieee.odp
>
> as we go along. Please share your thoughts....
Will do, or also write if you’re in need of something specific…
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-20 15:45 ` Pete Heist
@ 2018-06-21 3:43 ` Dave Taht
2018-06-21 7:04 ` Pete Heist
2018-06-21 9:42 ` Sebastian Moeller
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Taht @ 2018-06-21 3:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pete Heist; +Cc: Cake List
I think your "megabit myth" idea (and language) would be a very
powerful paper and/or talk to try and hammer home in multiple venues.
I might spend a slide on it at this conference, but it deserves more
focus than that.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:45 AM, Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2018, at 7:44 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Try as I might, finding a memorable narrative hook to fit into 20
> minutes eludes me. There's so much to cake! There's no room for me to
> break out a guitar or carry a case of water bottles into this press.
>
>
> To me, explaining this stuff is about trying to connect the technology with
> relatable human experience, and asserting/showing that the continued focus
> on throughput is misplaced. Is this audience already aware of that, or not?
> Maybe test them up front to see how much you need to talk about it. If you
> assume they know this and they don’t, the blank stares will start a minute
> or two into the talk...
>
> If at least some people in the audience need an explanation, or even if you
> just want to hammer it home, for this type of crowd (should at least be
> somewhat technical), why not make an analogy with the “Megahertz myth”? That
> finally died in 2005 with the Pentium Extreme Edition (with the “Extreme”
> part not describing its speed, but rather its flirtation with thermal
> limits), when AMD came out with a “slower” CPU that was actually faster.
> Finally there was an awareness that ah, it’s not just clock speed, it’s
> pipelines, it’s caching, it’s branch prediction, it’s the instruction set,
> it’s…complicated, and there’s no getting around it.
>
> Let’s start arguing that there’s an analogous “Megabit myth” that has no
> Wikipedia page yet because it persists to this day. Analogous to the
> megahertz myth, it’s not just “megabits per second”, but it’s inter-flow
> latency, it’s intra-flow latency, it’s fairness, it’s IPDV, it’s all of this
> under dynamic loads, it’s…complicated. And because it’s a complicated
> problem, Cake has a number of solutions built into it, which you’ll talk
> about... Perhaps Cake’s mascot should be a multi-headed creature of some
> kind (the monster that Eric referred to), maybe a hydra. Cake is definitely
> multi-headed. :)
>
> If this audience is aware of this already, just move beyond it more quickly,
> but it’s worth hammering it home at least a bit, because again, where’s that
> "Megabit myth" Wikipedia page? It doesnt exist, because it hasn’t yet sunk
> in to the general consciousness that hey, why are we paying for 50Mbit
> symmetric fiber connections that can feel like 5Mbit ADSL?
>
> Will the abandonment of network neutrality finally be the “Pentium Extreme
> Edition” that brings the megabit myth to a head?
>
> A principal complaint of the reviewers of the paper was the lack of
> real world tests, so I snuck in a couple sides for that and am working
> on incorporating the graphs and other text from the paper.
>
>
> I hadn’t noticed that complaint, but it’s legit. RRUL tests are interesting
> and point out what “should” happen, but long-term “before and after” tests
> on real networks and backhauls would be real proof. This doesn’t help you at
> this late stage in the game, but let’s take that comment to heart in the
> future. Meanwhile, do we have any quotes from users on how it improved their
> experience, or is that too anecdotal? or quotes from people in the field?
>
> What does a ieee lanman2018 audience already grok, what needs to be
> explained?
>
>
> That’s a key question, you’ll probably have to feel the audience out unless
> someone knows the conference already?
>
> I will be periodically updating the currently very raw
>
> http://www.taht.net/~d/cake/ieee.odp
>
> as we go along. Please share your thoughts....
>
>
> Will do, or also write if you’re in need of something specific…
>
--
Dave Täht
CEO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-669-226-2619
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-21 3:43 ` Dave Taht
@ 2018-06-21 7:04 ` Pete Heist
2018-06-21 7:55 ` Jonas Mårtensson
2018-06-21 9:42 ` Sebastian Moeller
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Pete Heist @ 2018-06-21 7:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: Cake List
> On Jun 21, 2018, at 5:43 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think your "megabit myth" idea (and language) would be a very
> powerful paper and/or talk to try and hammer home in multiple venues.
>
> I might spend a slide on it at this conference, but it deserves more
> focus than that.
Ok, I’ve finally got a few freer days coming up, so I’ll see if I can’t make progress on backed up tasks, then maybe write something up on this. Might retreat from the lists meanwhile.
On slide #4: Ubiquity -> Ubiquiti. And consider adding Verizon. My mother has Verizon Fios (50Mbit symmetric fiber) near Philly and that was the connection I referred to earlier- it just doesn’t feel like 50Mbit symmetric fiber should.
As a side note, Google as a whole seems responsible as far as the big four go when it comes to bloat (and other things). BBR advanced the state of things, and they financed it after all, so it deserves some appreciation, to the devs as well. Worth mentioning in this preso? :)
I like the Cake vs Sonic Fiber slide, and would like to hear the commentary. In case they video the presentation, do post a link. Best of luck!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-21 7:04 ` Pete Heist
@ 2018-06-21 7:55 ` Jonas Mårtensson
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jonas Mårtensson @ 2018-06-21 7:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pete; +Cc: Dave Taht, Cake List
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1545 bytes --]
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 9:04 AM Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 21, 2018, at 5:43 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think your "megabit myth" idea (and language) would be a very
> > powerful paper and/or talk to try and hammer home in multiple venues.
> >
> > I might spend a slide on it at this conference, but it deserves more
> > focus than that.
>
> Ok, I’ve finally got a few freer days coming up, so I’ll see if I can’t
> make progress on backed up tasks, then maybe write something up on this.
> Might retreat from the lists meanwhile.
>
> On slide #4: Ubiquity -> Ubiquiti. And consider adding Verizon. My mother
> has Verizon Fios (50Mbit symmetric fiber) near Philly and that was the
> connection I referred to earlier- it just doesn’t feel like 50Mbit
> symmetric fiber should.
>
> As a side note, Google as a whole seems responsible as far as the big four
> go when it comes to bloat (and other things). BBR advanced the state of
> things, and they financed it after all, so it deserves some appreciation,
> to the devs as well. Worth mentioning in this preso? :)
>
> I like the Cake vs Sonic Fiber slide, and would like to hear the
> commentary. In case they video the presentation, do post a link. Best of
> luck!
>
I like the slide too but what exactly do you mean by "Cake gets inside the
GPON request/grant loop"?
Now, even more impressive would be a Cake vs Google Fiber plot, showing a
reduction of latency under load from ~2000ms to a few ms.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Cake] lanman2018 cake talk ideas
2018-06-21 3:43 ` Dave Taht
2018-06-21 7:04 ` Pete Heist
@ 2018-06-21 9:42 ` Sebastian Moeller
1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Moeller @ 2018-06-21 9:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Täht; +Cc: Pete Heist, Cake List
Hi Dave,
> On Jun 21, 2018, at 05:43, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think your "megabit myth" idea (and language) would be a very
> powerful paper and/or talk to try and hammer home in multiple venues.
>
> I might spend a slide on it at this conference, but it deserves more
> focus than that.
So I like the idea of using traditional transport methods like semitrailers and containerships to illustrate bandwidth versus latency.
I once guesstimated that a semi trailer full of 2TB hardisks across the USA will have around 1Tbps Bandwidth but a one-way delay larger than 43 hours
That IMHO shows the weak linkage between bandwidth and latency and why focussing on bandwidth alone will not work well with interactive use cases.
But this might both be too obvious and too cynic...
Best Regards
Sebastian
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:45 AM, Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2018, at 7:44 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Try as I might, finding a memorable narrative hook to fit into 20
>> minutes eludes me. There's so much to cake! There's no room for me to
>> break out a guitar or carry a case of water bottles into this press.
>>
>>
>> To me, explaining this stuff is about trying to connect the technology with
>> relatable human experience, and asserting/showing that the continued focus
>> on throughput is misplaced. Is this audience already aware of that, or not?
>> Maybe test them up front to see how much you need to talk about it. If you
>> assume they know this and they don’t, the blank stares will start a minute
>> or two into the talk...
>>
>> If at least some people in the audience need an explanation, or even if you
>> just want to hammer it home, for this type of crowd (should at least be
>> somewhat technical), why not make an analogy with the “Megahertz myth”? That
>> finally died in 2005 with the Pentium Extreme Edition (with the “Extreme”
>> part not describing its speed, but rather its flirtation with thermal
>> limits), when AMD came out with a “slower” CPU that was actually faster.
>> Finally there was an awareness that ah, it’s not just clock speed, it’s
>> pipelines, it’s caching, it’s branch prediction, it’s the instruction set,
>> it’s…complicated, and there’s no getting around it.
>>
>> Let’s start arguing that there’s an analogous “Megabit myth” that has no
>> Wikipedia page yet because it persists to this day. Analogous to the
>> megahertz myth, it’s not just “megabits per second”, but it’s inter-flow
>> latency, it’s intra-flow latency, it’s fairness, it’s IPDV, it’s all of this
>> under dynamic loads, it’s…complicated. And because it’s a complicated
>> problem, Cake has a number of solutions built into it, which you’ll talk
>> about... Perhaps Cake’s mascot should be a multi-headed creature of some
>> kind (the monster that Eric referred to), maybe a hydra. Cake is definitely
>> multi-headed. :)
>>
>> If this audience is aware of this already, just move beyond it more quickly,
>> but it’s worth hammering it home at least a bit, because again, where’s that
>> "Megabit myth" Wikipedia page? It doesnt exist, because it hasn’t yet sunk
>> in to the general consciousness that hey, why are we paying for 50Mbit
>> symmetric fiber connections that can feel like 5Mbit ADSL?
>>
>> Will the abandonment of network neutrality finally be the “Pentium Extreme
>> Edition” that brings the megabit myth to a head?
>>
>> A principal complaint of the reviewers of the paper was the lack of
>> real world tests, so I snuck in a couple sides for that and am working
>> on incorporating the graphs and other text from the paper.
>>
>>
>> I hadn’t noticed that complaint, but it’s legit. RRUL tests are interesting
>> and point out what “should” happen, but long-term “before and after” tests
>> on real networks and backhauls would be real proof. This doesn’t help you at
>> this late stage in the game, but let’s take that comment to heart in the
>> future. Meanwhile, do we have any quotes from users on how it improved their
>> experience, or is that too anecdotal? or quotes from people in the field?
>>
>> What does a ieee lanman2018 audience already grok, what needs to be
>> explained?
>>
>>
>> That’s a key question, you’ll probably have to feel the audience out unless
>> someone knows the conference already?
>>
>> I will be periodically updating the currently very raw
>>
>> http://www.taht.net/~d/cake/ieee.odp
>>
>> as we go along. Please share your thoughts....
>>
>>
>> Will do, or also write if you’re in need of something specific…
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-669-226-2619
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread