From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x242.google.com (mail-qk0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8897C3BA8E for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2018 03:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x242.google.com with SMTP id c126-v6so5636506qkd.7 for ; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 00:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ErqtGK28PJZ4b/3/URYvjXuctRJXYkA6OHSDVhkdJN0=; b=eIj5MiRnL+v69p3mB9f+0Lirzw/G/gXM11AxIKE0NDCJ+D5YKp8EwgezdqauZCTnTQ xVEBYvB6QzgOuG07KUZEy3DXP7k7jfkz2V6rBS4W9+Olf3lscRo3hjvroiPWrn2HW1UM y5jkxe8hEKcrOHZBuC0QaO9N8SdtjrYzCZ00Ra01s9gLshbaIV91GlSGJJpJdc9EilBr MJyRgDXsnPkFQ+PHnEiAjXNshijva/uAT+iN5mNWr5iA9lvI0B3JdaN+wYmJyvbJciCR c9AP6HTk83c5nzpm5YD2CrnHCBOGNW5vg+66clmdmaOvxCCJ4RO3D7P8vRaDY+wmnv4B ikMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ErqtGK28PJZ4b/3/URYvjXuctRJXYkA6OHSDVhkdJN0=; b=WB9R+OCOVRRod/256Kw/J3XA9SA8BS9WaOve+Z/yEzewsWBknZ3QIiaRwnmrozA0XV g20n1gTeYiB7L3xf33vS3Wts7qoFPaMG9XAkL7jWIsJ3N+SA93AE0I9G04Qu00MrS3jm zHZXPV+06GwZMY7Z0ECUAfURJ/H8ZNq05YTR8FSoLq6wTnz3Sf6mTmsv0V5yQYJRBFcQ qQTS/JID0rdFhy88hBLo9inut1dIuxenXhT+XKKzzUUjUpYjHS79yw+sZ9tpNvG1aFtr xXvq7vBAJ9PE88Re1xnZj36bBeDH+qh2HrHDgaXCoS/6PUXibKK7XmzVCb4b3BMZaaZy S6DQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlF1Btu1DEs3zbYmsMI6LOn35Ryy6WtVexf96JLf/K017Qb4FaDr zXILKYLkwexSTGBv7eeiYCDnmVk5auiCYe887DGtuQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpf6/MfcCYMwiDbfVhnMSf8ZnervFIungXsH1AgwFpy7nDOMlllqGACaJetyufVQrpX74nzFqMRFgHfcoLwcTf4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:24c9:: with SMTP id k70-v6mr6302657qkk.35.1533369134767; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 00:52:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 00:53:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Cake] Policers X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2018 07:52:15 -0000 https://www.nanog.org/sites/default/files/20170201_Flach_An_Internet-Wide_A= nalysis_v1.pdf On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > I was off in the cheap seats watching, > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLdjavTiMrs0&feature=3Dyoutu.be&t=3D1h10= m3s > > saying "yes, for ghu's sake, back off half on ecn - or more! And if > you are going to try defeating policers, despite the desperate reasons > for them to exist... it's time to come up with a policer that will > fool your algorithm enough so the gamer downstairs stops screaming in > frustration!" > > and then there was the aqm talk where they tried to move the setpoint > so the link was always buffered, rather than trying to hit the > artificially small buffer size and back off... (actually I liked this > talk because you can also try configuring the setpoint to where it was > below capacity) > On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:38 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:37 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM Arie wrote: > > > > > > > > It does. > > > > > > well, one approach seems to be to police as per that bug report at sa= y > > > 90-95% of the actual inbound rate, while shaping at 85%... or some > > > combination thereof. > > > > > > figuring out the "burst" value is tricky, of course, but I'd much > > > rather let the queues build up in cake than the cmts, and putting a > > > brick wall there at this point in the internet's evolution seems like > > > a start. > > > > > > this morning I spent watching ietf preso after preso "accept" that > > > 100ms of queuing delay and pdv was acceptible, then showing tests wit= h > > > 50 packet buffers showing that things like BBR worked ok at 100mbit, > > > when... well... here I am at hundred mbit, with 300+ms of inherent > > > queuing delay on the cable downlink, that shapes down nicely using > > > cake vs cubic to 5-40, looking at the carnage. I *don't like* policer= s > > > (at least, not what's deployed today), and the BBR folk don't like > > > them either... but they seem necessary if overly aggressive transport= s > > > (as netflix's appears to be, also) exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 21 July 2018 at 20:02, Dave Taht wrote: > > > >> > > > >> In other news: > > > >> > > > >> https://github.com/tohojo/sqm-scripts/issues/68 > > > >> > > > >> does the ER4 have act_police? > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 10:55 AM Arie wrot= e: > > > >> > > > > >> > It's Ziggo NL/Liberty Global. I'm surprised by the reported late= ncy in the fast.com test. Both the site and the flent ping test report abou= t the same 60-ish ms. DSLReports and flent RRUL report way more bufferbloa= t, so I guess those stress my connection more than fast.com > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On 21 July 2018 at 19:45, Dave Taht wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Thank you. At least for your ISP (?), at 250mbit, you can hold = the > > > >> >> damage down to something reasonable, and certainly you are winn= ing big > > > >> >> on the upload. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Good to know the ER4 can keep up, also. > > > >> >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 10:36 AM Arie w= rote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Unshaped reno attached. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > On 21 July 2018 at 19:27, Dave Taht wro= te: > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> Yours is not as horrific as mine in either case. > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> Can you provide an unshaped result as well? > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 10:24 AM Arie wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > Two more data points. Shaped my connection to 250Mbit out = of the advertised 250Mbit (my usual setting) and shaped to 200Mbit out of t= he 250Mbit. This is a pre-linux-net-next cake running on an Edgemax ER4 wit= h kernel 3.10.107-UBNT. > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > The regular spikes in ICMP ping is due to the crappy Puma = 6 chipset in the cable modem. UDP is not affected. > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > On 21 July 2018 at 19:20, Georgios Amanakis wrote: > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> On Sat, 2018-07-21 at 09:09 -0700, Dave Taht wrote: > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> >> > 1) Can someone else on a cablemodem (even without the l= atest cake, > > > >> >> >> >> > this happens to me on older cake and fq_codel) try this= test? > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> I just tried this on my cable comcast connection. I set i= ngress to ~80% > > > >> >> >> >> of what fast.com reports when no shaper is in place. > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> #tc qdisc add dev ens4 root handle 8011 cake bandwidth 16= 000kbit dual- > > > >> >> >> >> dsthost docsis ingress > > > >> >> >> >> #tc qdisc add dev ens3 root handle 8012 cake bandwidth 25= 00kbit dual- > > > >> >> >> >> srchost nat docsis ack-filter > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> I got the same result as you. This is using latest cake. > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> Georgios > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> >> >> Cake mailing list > > > >> >> >> >> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > >> >> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> >> > Cake mailing list > > > >> >> >> > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > >> >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> -- > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > > > >> >> >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > >> >> >> http://www.teklibre.com > > > >> >> >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> -- > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > > > >> >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > >> >> http://www.teklibre.com > > > >> >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> > > > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > > > >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > >> http://www.teklibre.com > > > >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > > CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > http://www.teklibre.com > > > Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > http://www.teklibre.com > > Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > > > > -- > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > CEO, TekLibre, LLC > http://www.teklibre.com > Tel: 1-669-226-2619 --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619