From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A57C33BA8E for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:35:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id w10so26080259qtb.10 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:35:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=srpdrL7TAGwjHAlq4VBKN7sbQtl54hzvPuQNArVH5h4=; b=GNchidPYyPyz/EzW6STf/1byBhc6pdzLN5CUTQummcoGndPykCSA379am37ppASGlq n3OtnlzBxW3UoquxtfUqdesDz5f+KlMbFwLF10rKYlgOojIxUq73vdaGB60p3ORbp3BX QX8YCfycvHezTWJdi3FliBRpstgAG+HmtN1T+iHzL/Ts9UWRKPB0x2lCqr2wzVjFXAZo uY7VkxWG71wLqTy+xSfhFH3GiYvPb5QeZ+ZZxX/sz3ni+7Ou+XqR52ib9M1kJ9s8KnkQ Qae6NJZ8UxEQg76pDDsQtSnFc+Su/kpqhw+EHlp5R/J1ZlSHXLJ2fmMDBG1pMRhQN5uL 36fA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=srpdrL7TAGwjHAlq4VBKN7sbQtl54hzvPuQNArVH5h4=; b=UQFP/Kw7Wd+TIhPrkKF4kfsfRa6bnIahOlQKLCh01gqStYd747NgWGZDQ9BIcM6ZrI kVE5a1L1duao+x+psBb5WR7bUa3cYi+Za1rR3YZySzUNNeymUSiRa7PmiDzOnKDNGSr9 7qhuxZTvRravcMjx7Tfl2ctTwsXSo+r5hUEh0r6dpIvxmPPJt3jBN9YlrQgxfSM74igV vzuNNlDMcTIohqy+WMFyWIeJET8bF9KTQkSbZKRtKzvvrOFBoUJfSkD9gBImF1Y/pjIf zZK/1Y/QB5pIVgZBuoPX6337ld+ZYrvRZ9kNHxGxd6DWByUQOM6ewgA8MOYeh7Wjud4E tk+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5qMAMoirT3omMnfdj9O19Ajmup4HWpA5MoMW09VYIFWeTS+K6C oUJNaKh3ksv75C80gmsCUO4zsCdEu/7Kh+mHO1o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYKpUszpA2YtKsw8UpniALrWSg5eCAwhrCXn1j8AeNnB/pzGA24qj4avfU0Nj1NISTr8JfsZTEtj1B15GIRHio= X-Received: by 10.200.46.50 with SMTP id r47mr50123688qta.314.1511771712175; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:35:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.193.93 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:35:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1493791193941.83458@telenor.com> References: <7B914FA7-38A6-4113-9B2C-D6246873676A@gmail.com> <1493791193941.83458@telenor.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: To: erik.taraldsen@telenor.com Cc: Pete Heist , Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cake] Recomended HW to run cake and fq_codel? X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:35:12 -0000 >What I see as short term posibiliteis for us as ISP's is to push our vendo= rs to include this as a part of the feature set. We also could do >better = with the maketing. Lets steal an idea from the Video area. HD is often wr= itten as 1080P@60. Why not do the same for internet >speed? 60M@80ms. Wh= ere the @80ms would be the larges latency in either direction that queue ma= nagement would introduce? (This >of cource introduces the risk of artifici= aly tuning the @xxms to low and ending up with strict policing) I like this. 900M @ 1.2ms. Taking the 99th percentile from: http://www.drhleny.cz/bufferbloat/cake/round0/tor_rrultor_eg_cake_950mbit/r= rul_torrent-ping_cdf.svg Since this is a measure of flow switching time: 950Mbit @ 1.2 "FQ" better, I think, scaled by a reference to pifo on the same test and test conditions, (8ms/1.2ms in this case) http://www.drhleny.cz/bufferbloat/cake/round0/tor_rrultor_eg_pfifo_950mbit/= rrul_torrent-ping_cdf.svg cake: XMbit @ 6.666 FQ! On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:59 PM, wrote: >> Fra: Pete Heist >> - As for low bandwidth, in my experience AQM works great on low bandwidt= h ADSL. A few years ago I >> used fq_codel at a campground to shape a 0.5 / 5 Mbps ADSL connection. W= ith up to 130 people in the >> camp, it was a disaster before fq_codel, where one person saturating eit= her the up or downstream >> could easily cause 600+ ms of induced latency. fq_codel could keep that = to 40-50 ms under load, >>enough to make it usable for web browsing, at least, and Cake does better= . > > Thats encouraging! > > >> It=E2=80=99s an interesting question: what can be done as an ISP? Essen= tially it boils down to the fundamentals >> of deploying AQM- finding where the queues are forming and placing fq_co= del or Cake at the >> bottleneck links, preferring =E2=80=9Chardware=E2=80=9D queue management= like BQL or in the case of WiFi the ath9k=E2=80=99s >> driver in LEDE, over soft rate limiting, where possible. When soft rate = limiting, the rate limiting strategy >> and chosen rate are the most CPU intensive and finicky parts of deployin= g AQM. > > What I see as short term posibiliteis for us as ISP's is to push our vend= ors to include this as a part of the feature set. We also could do better = with the maketing. Lets steal an idea from the Video area. HD is often wr= itten as 1080P@60. Why not do the same for internet speed? 60M@80ms. Whe= re the @80ms would be the larges latency in either direction that queue man= agement would introduce? (This of cource introduces the risk of artificial= y tuning the @xxms to low and ending up with strict policing) > > >> - I don't understand why ADSL modem vendors don=E2=80=99t just bake BQL-= like functionality right into their >> devices so they can ship AQM without the need for soft rate limiting. AQ= M is so effective on ADSL's >> upstream that it seems it would just make a lot of sense. For that matte= r, why not on the DSLAM as well >> to shape the customer=E2=80=99s downstream, if that=E2=80=99s also a bot= tleneck? > > I think most ISP's handle shaping on the BRAS level rather than on the DS= LAM, as DSLAM's in general have very limited shaping/qos capabilites. > > Regarding CPEs, to be fair, up coming devices from Intel (Lantiq) will mo= re or less do away with HW accellerators and do everything in software. Th= en the vendors are a lot more free to implement better shapeing strategies. > > The trade shows and all sales pitches focuses mostly on next gen stuff. = There are comparatively very little recources dedicated to ADSL, where the = best schedulers is most needed. > > > -Erik > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619